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Since other users revered edits to your user page related to a discussion

just a humph[edit]

Clearly, i suck at writing, and/or suck at arguing and/or am just not as atubborn. A bully is more than a brat. More than a Jerk. even if he does not use fists. If he intimidates, threatens, or teases someone, we think of him as the problem. But i have in effect, just been told that girls who are - to borrow this set of words -- bullied into sex, are choosing it, adn it's their own damn fault. I don't get that. I get that some people are not strong. I get that the attraction of a chance to be in the spot light might carry the cost of sex - or else. In teh work place, we call this threat of not getting what the raise, or the good job, or the right office "sexual harrassment". But if a teen girl (OR BOY!) is pressured into sex they do not want, we just say "it's too bad, she should grow up", or "emotional pressure" is "not all bad". huh. I really really don't understand that distinction. other than, you know... girls want it. But i'm dropping it there, cause clearly i am either dealing with sommeone who doesn't care, or more likely, i'm not that good at getting my ideas across. but i'm putting it here. passive aggressive and all. (not really)Green mowse.pngGodot She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans 00:17, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

When I read this, not long after you posted it, I realized that I agree more with what you were arguing. No one should say that it's the girls fault or that they should just deal with it. At some point emotional pressure does become rape, but not at the "you need to have sex or I will break up" level. For your point about education, girls should be educated that they should break up with anyone who says that. The fact that Liberal never had any sort of sexual or romantic interaction with a girl strongly lowered his credibility on his POV and makes me less inclined to want to side with him. Plus it's also been my observation that people who go for a long time without ever having a girlfriend or having sex make up their own incorrect ideas about relationships. ఠ_ఠ Inquisitor Sasha Ehrenstein des Sturmkrieg Sector 22:50, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
ఠ_ఠ Inquisitor Sasha Ehrenstein des Sturmkrieg Sector22:54, 5 February 2013

As a "women's rights" person, a "feminist" a "rape survivor" or whatever label you chose for yourself, there are always two battles you are fighting simultaneously. The first is that it **IS** our culture which sets girls up to be raped, and frankly, boys up to rape. we hide sex. we down play it, or even block it all while glorifying it and selling everythign with it. I've never agreed with hiding sex, but if you are going to do that, you at least need to create a puritanical world where we aren't being shown it 24/7. WE teach our girls to be a tease, by teaching them they NEED a boyfriend to be whole, and then giving them the double message of "STAY PURE OR YOU HAVE NO VALUE" and SEX SEX SEX. our girls don't know how to give clear signals cause they don't evne know what they want. we start sexualizing them at 7, 8, 9 now. and they don't have the maturity to know how to fight all of that.

Our boys are taught to TAKE WHAT THEY WANT. taught that men have to push women to get it, cause women don't know that they really want it. We tell our boys the same bs "sex is bad, m'kay" while we say "go go go have sex". The boys are confused because dad says "all girls want it, but they won't tell you that'. AND we hero worship our hot boys, and say "you should get AS MUCH SEX AS YOU CAN" so they do.

We create the reality of rape culture with every movie we make, book we write, and TV commercial we sell. Adn then we whine and say "wait, why is she claiming i raped her?"


The second reality is that women need to be empowered overall, not just about sex. STronger role models in our world. Stronger TV characters, less sterotyped figures in books. But those kind of women don't sell. women who don't need men, don't sell. women who can say "fuck you, this is not what i want OR need" isn't something you can easily teach.

I was not kidding when i said talk to the average 13 year old teen girl (maybe boy, too... dont' know, there) about what they want, and it's "a cute date". they probably don't want sex, but sex insures the date.

so they say yes. but yes is not really what they want.

100 years ago, Simone deBeauvoir said "if you pay me a diamond ring, I'll sleep with you forever" to try to get women to see that in some ways, our traditional view of marriage is just legalized prostitution. That's changing, and by the time most girls in today's world become women, they won't likely marry into that kind of a relatioship... but it's still not an equal, measured world for most women, even in teh states.

ramblingn now. bit drunk. been a bad day.

Green mowse.pngGodot She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans23:45, 5 February 2013

The overall message, in short, is "put out, but don't be a slut about it". No wonder we're all fucked up.

Scarlet A.pnggnostic01:38, 6 February 2013

It probably has something to do with all the religiousness and wanting to hide sex.

ఠ_ఠ Inquisitor Sasha Ehrenstein des Sturmkrieg Sector01:42, 6 February 2013

General squeamishness is the issue. It may not necessarily be religious in origin. If you've ever red any Cosmocking, you'll know that the one thing that these sex tips in magazines never advocate is talking. Nope, it's all got to be hints, and nudges, and just doing, and euphemisms. So communication between people is set up to be piss-poor.

Scarlet A.pngsshole01:48, 6 February 2013

that's cause women are teases. don't cha know. and we are SUPPOSED to be that way.

If we say what we want, then we are Eve. we cannot be a virgin, cause virgins don't KNOW what they want.

and even if we aren't a virgin, i **guess** that' sok, cause i'll be the macho guy and teach you stuff the loser guy didn't do for you. Oh? you already know how to orgasm? you do it on your own all the time? well fuck, what kind of a slut are you?

(this is not most men. it is many men. it's many men i've slept with, in fact. who all need to prove you are somehow "innocent" and "virginal" even if you aren't.) and then the books say, "see, he wants a virgin so stay one.

Green mowse.pngGodot She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans03:13, 6 February 2013

The social script just makes things easier, not more consistent.

Scarlet A.pngmoral12:25, 6 February 2013

Nor more "real" whatever that term means. We don't have to have this pattern, but changing it... that is going to take lots of work.

Green mowse.pngGodot She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans16:11, 6 February 2013

Of course. The alternative is difficult. If you don't pigeon-hole people into a doing a particular role, then that means we need to figure that out. We need to evaluate if a particular role is even needed, if it's meaningful, if it's valid to ask for it - of if it's valid for some people to take it anyway. The simplest of cases is "who pays for the first date?" If the answer is "the man does, and the woman coyly accepts" that's easy! But then how do we solve it without gender roles? Split it? What if one is blatantly wealthier than the other? What if one did the asking and the other the accepting? Do you just offer to pay for the wine? ARGH! CHRIST! WE NEED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION TO SORT THIS!! And that's just the remarkably simple end of what needs fixed.

Good luck with that, world!

Scarlet A.pngbomination16:27, 6 February 2013

I would argue (or perhaps disagree with what'his'name that i've forgotten, from the cosmo dissing) that it's not that hard, and the roles are not that necessary.

Any gay couple is necessary outside of those roles, and they manage it. Many gay couples have told me there is no "dom/sub" "maleish/female" "top/bottom" to their reliationships, there just is navigating as you go. he makes more, so he paide on the first date. She invited me, so she pays. or, I asked him if he wanted us to pay, or go dutch or whatever.

TALKING IS HONEST TO GOD, NOT THAT HARD FOR ADULTS.


(i keep saying adults here, cause i'm fully aware that teens are not skilled at this. but that's a whole other kettle of sexy parts)

Green mowse.pngGodot She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans16:54, 6 February 2013

Well, if you can get people to speak, sure. But that's the hurdle.

Scarlet A.pngnarchist16:57, 6 February 2013
 

Say what you will, but I was not a "kettle of sexy parts" when I was a teenager.

Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.17:06, 6 February 2013

Sounds so kinky when you put it like that!

Scarlet A.pngtheist17:37, 6 February 2013

i was a klutzy fool, "sexually confused" not in the way we mean today, but in the "i'm a geek, books are better than sex, why are the stupid boys always staring at my boobs, oh, D&D" type. ;-)

Green mowse.pngGodot She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans19:55, 6 February 2013

Sounds like people are expecting women to be virgins multiple times. I've heard that's possible, but it requires beating Skyrim, getting to level 80 in WoW, and getting 10th prestige.

ఠ_ఠ Inquisitor Sasha Ehrenstein des Sturmkrieg Sector22:19, 6 February 2013

eh, 'relative' virgins. You aren't supposed to have really liked sex before mr. X. You're not supposed to have been fulfilled by anyone but mr. X. You're not supposed to WANT sex with anyoen like the way you want it with Mr. X. Cause he can't actuallly deflower you in 2013, but he can build up something in his mind that is somehow akin.

Green mowse.pngGodot She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans00:11, 7 February 2013

Wow... How many people actually think this?

ఠ_ఠ Inquisitor Sasha Ehrenstein des Sturmkrieg Sector01:16, 7 February 2013

i don't know how many men it's normal to admit to sleeping with, so i won't divulge, but well over half has asserted some idea like this. or have been "upset", or "disappointed" i was quite um... autosexual when necessary.

The other half would be about as opposite from that as you could get. happy i came with some knowledge, didn't have hang ups, and said "this, here now!" when that's what i felt.

There seems in my experience, to be almost no middle ground. but i think that (the lack of 'middle ground') is right back to the hang up about sex issue. guys who are equally open about sex, love that you don't play games (unless game playign is on teh night's menu, heh). They love that you will show them what you like, and you ask them what they like. it's teh ones who think this - may i say, archic? - way, that are all possessive "I need to be her first something, or she's not worth it".


but, it's anecdotal, so who really knows.

Green mowse.pngGodot She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans01:24, 7 February 2013
 
 
Scarlet A.pngpostate18:16, 7 February 2013

That explains so much, now.

Green mowse.pngGodot She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans18:26, 7 February 2013
 

LOL

ఠ_ఠ [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Sasha Ehrenstein des Sturmkrieg S 01:16, 12 February 2013