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Conservapedia:New Ordeal

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According to Conservapedia's article New Ordeal (as of May 26th, 2007):

The New Ordeal describes the period of time be 1929 and 1949, when the American economy finally recovered from the Crash of '29. It encompasses the four presidential terms U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt had been elected to, the final term having been administered mostly by his predecessor, President Harry S. Truman. The New Ordeal also is sometimes refered to as the Great Ordeal or simply the Ordeal.
  • In addition to the 4 terms FDR was elected to, the described time period includes most of Republican Herbert Hoover's term. The Crash began on "Black Thursday", 29 October 1929; Hoover had taken office 4 March 1929. Note This item was fixed as of May 29, although it took a second editor (since blocked for "constant arguing" and violation of the [90/10 Rule]) to actually use the words "Herbert Hoover".
  • A review of Google queries for "new ordeal" and "new ordeal" "new deal" gives no indication the term has ever been used before; it is certainly not in common use.
  • Similarly for "great ordeal" and "great ordeal "new deal". In fact, the only page found which appears to be at all relevant is this quiz, where "great ordeal" is a wrong answer.
  • "Ordeal" is simply too common a word to attempt the same review, but given the above and no citation to give credence to this, it is doubtful as well.
  • Harry S. Truman was Roosevelt's successor, not predecessor. Note This item was fixed as of May 27

A Conservapedia editor left a response, shown below; a RationalWiki response to the response follows.

Conservapedia Response[edit]

115yeardowgoldratio.gif

  • In the above chart one can see the Keynsian [sic][1] double dip in 1932 and 1937 (the 1937-1942 recession spanned 5 years unlike the 1929-1932 recession); followed by the classic Malthusian catastrophe evident from 1942 on; then the topping out from 1966 to 1982 with the classic Keynsian [sic] model of stagflation; again the classic Keynsian [sic] double dip is repeated from 1979-1982.
  • The classic Malthusian catastrophe is reference in The Great Ordeal TIME magazine, May. 14, 1945.

RationalWiki Response to the Response[edit]

It's unclear to this editor what if anything the graph or the first bullet point has to do with any of the points made in this article. In fact, if the "New Ordeal" ended in 1949, then none of the comments dealing with 1966 or later can be relevant.

The Time Magazine article is indeed entitled "The Great Ordeal", but it is at best tangentially about the economic woes of the time period; it is instead about the ordeal of soldiers waiting to be re-united with their families following the end of the war. There is no reference to a "classic Malthusian catastrophe" anywhere in the article, even if such a reference would be proof that the term "New Ordeal" or "Great Ordeal" is or ever was in use as given in the Conservapedia article.

CP Response to RW Response[edit]

The classic Malthusian catastrophe more commonly known as World War II was engaged by several nation states that embraced economic planning during the period in question. TIME magazine only refers to the upheavals of WWII here as The Great Ordeal, and there are other cites available. The CP article clearly articluates the loss of 55 million lives in WWII is part of the whole Ordeal, so that in itself is sufficient to demonstrate either (a) faulty research or hasty conclusion as RW has posted above, or (b) prejudice.

RW response, etc[edit]

If you have cites available that use "New Ordeal", "Great Ordeal" or "Ordeal" the way your article uses them, please provide them. Simply saying they're "common knowledge" then referring people to this page, then simply saying "I beleive I've answered several times" is not convincing. And replying here probably isn't the best strategy; CP's commandments require "Everything you post must be true and verifiable" and "Always cite and give credit to your sources"; replies here won't help the article comply with those.

See Conservapedia:RobS's Idiot's Grin Stratagem for a fuller exploration of the claimed proof for this phrase's use and meaning.

Footnotes[edit]

  1. The word is spelled "Keynesian", after the famed economist John Maynard Keynes, Lord Mayor and Lieutenant of Milton Keynes ;)