Debate:Assassination of Velikovsky

From RationalWiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search
Debate.png This is a Debate page.
Feel free to add your own spin on the story. Please keep it civil!
Information icon.svg This debate was created by Assassination of Velikovsky.

The scientific community ostracised Immanuel Velikovsky for his ideas of catastrophe theory when progress and evolution were new. Many of his predictions were accurate. He was no idiotic fanatic.[edit]

He presented evidence for his claims, he predicted that Venus would have hydrocarbons in it's atmosphere when we got there, and IT DOES.

His claim was reasonable  - that Venus had been a periodic comet; that it came from Jupiter's region; that it caused devastation on Mars and Earth; that it stripped water from Mars and deposited it here. He said that Venus was the "Destroyer" of the Old Testament, the Morning and Evening star, Hesperus and Lucifer; the "Resister", (which is what "Satan" means) because it rotates on it's axis in the opposite direction to other planets. He said that it was the body previously feared by the Ancients.

It is reasonable because Venus does not have a smooth and regular orbit, but has an orbit that appears to us on Earth as a Pentacle -a five pointed star - as it rotates around the Sun. It is also reasonable because names for God in a great many cultures are derived from the planet Jupiter.

He was also ostracised because in his "Ages in Chaos" series of books, he presented compelling evidence that the history of Egypt and the chronology we accept is wrong.

Einstein proof read for him and they had frequent meetings and discussions about their work.

The page on rational wiki - - is so entrenched in contradiction, badly sourced claims, and twisted contradictory statements that it should be completely removed. It is a misleading continuation of the hatred that Velikovsky endured in his life time. It's equivalent to wiping the faces off the paintings of Egypt.— Unsigned, by: Saparonia / talk / contribs 11:14, 29 July 2017‎ (UTC)

Ironic, since I could say the same about your arguments. Can you answer to the Wiki's claim that Velikovsky believed events in Jewish scripture happened and were caused by planetary motion? Or, otherwise, explain what specific things are wrong with the page so that I, someone who does not know of Velikovsky, can fix it up? Further, can you support your claim that the ancient Jews, a people who made astrology a capital offense, were so focused on looking at stars they had special interest in Venus? And, also, that they even had a negative attitude to five-pointed-stars; given the Seal of Solomon could be five or six-pointed, I don't see much of a fear of it -- Forerunner (talk) 11:28, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Velikovsky approached the scripture critically. In "Peoples of the Sea", one of the "Ages in Chaos" series of books he said that Ezra (who was living in Egypt) found and ReWrote the books of Moses who was little known at the time. Velikovsky used various sources which did include scripture but also included secular history. He was colleague and a university lecturer and not confined to superstition and make believe. His books cite many references and provide evidence of his claims. "Earth in Upheaval" 1955 provides evidence to support the claims he made in "Worlds in Collision".

Specific things that I objected to on the page I referred to are numerous, otherwise I would have simply corrected errors. I will have to spend an evening finding sources to demonstrate this. I would suggest actually reading his books or going to (a collection of unpublished articles) to get more of a feel of who he was and what he said.

The Jews were originally from various backgrounds, they left Egypt as a "people" and they carried with them the name of the more or less universal "god" Jupiter e.g. YaHWeH, Jehovah, Jove, Zeus, Thor etc. Names from various cultures for this god can be found quite easily by searching on Google.

Astrology may have been a capital offence but that does not mean that astronomy was. All ancient people noted the movement of the "heavens". The "five pointed star" orbit of Venus and mapped by Brahe, was used in calculations of the orbit of Mars by Kepler to find the orbit of Earth around the Sun

The Seal or Star of Solomon is traditionally a six pointed figure made of two triangles interlocking making a hexagon. "Hex" meaning six. The five pointed star is a pentacle meaning Five points and was demonised by the Churches to create fear. It was a symbol of the star Venus. (It makes sense that Venus was formerly a heavenly member and then demonised as "Evil" and cast to Earth if it was a huge cometary body that deposited debris, water, and hydrocarbons here.) Saturn traditionally was symbolised by the number 8 etc. Modern numerology may follow different rules for this.

The Jews were into numerology on a large scale as you can easily research. So were other cultures, e.g. the Chinese. The IChing, Book of Changes, goes back at least 5k years and is a pattern of hexagrams, six lined pictograms, collections of ones and zeros the arrangement of which mirror our Binary Code.

Thank you for answering and giving me opportunity to explain. I am not an expert but can give you references if you want them. If so I will need a little time as I have a large collection of books and am a bad note keeper.Saparonia (talk) 14:14, 29 July 2017 (UTC)