Talk:As-Sabiqun

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Not that RationalWiki is known for great caution, there is a proper distinction made in the Antisemitism article here, between anti-Zionism and antisemitism. The ADL is not exactly an unbiased source, and is clearly equating opposition to Zionism, as a political movement embodied in the State of Israel, with antisemitism.

"Fundamentalist" is a concept developed to describe certain Christian groups. It is sometimes applied by analogy to Islamic organizations, but it can be misleading. All Muslims, by definition, accept the Qur'an as the word of God (literally, at least that's the accepted theology), but the difference between fundamentalists in Islam, such as the Wahhabiyya (Saudis, now, and the Taliban in Afghanistan, etc.), and the mainstream, is that it's understood by the mainstream that the interpretation of the Qur'an is a human activity and is fallible, there is no infallible interpreter. Further, it's understood by mainstream Islam, based on the Qur'an itself -- it's explicit -- that the Qur'an is partly metaphorical.

I'll add that the Qur'an is not a science textbook. Some have pointed out certain remarkable passages in the Qur'an that seem more consistent with modern science than with what would have been common thought in the time of the revelation. However, Arabic is fluid and susceptible to wide ranges of interpretation. It's enough for me, as a Muslim, that the Qur'an speaks about what would have meaning to the people to whom it was revealed, and it may also, through this fluidity of interpretation, speak to more modern audiences. It certainly spoke to me, and that's partly because I read it from the point of view that it might be talking about my life, and what I can directly recognize.

The fundamentalists think it's talking about you, especially the parts that talk about the consequences of stubborn ignorance, which can be, shall we say, painful. They think the parts about the houris, the rewards of Paradise, are for them, and some of them will kill you if you disagree. They are in for a rude awakening, if the Qur'an is true.

A brief look at the web site of As-Sabiqun shows no marks of fundamentalism, as far as I noticed. They apparently have political views that are certainly unpopular with the Anti-Defamation League, but those views would be shared by many Jews who strongly criticize Israeli "apartheid" and who do make comparisons with the Nazis, sometimes. --Abd (talk) 15:46, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Nut cases

The source cited in the article, Grown at Home, has an article on the imam of the Oakland mosque, Abdel Malik Ali. If the story is accurate, he's a nut case, all right.

There are other Muslims described there. The so-called "moderate Imam," Mohammad al-Asi, isn't an Imam except by his claim, and isn't moderate. I met him when he was acting as Imam of the main Washington mosque. Nasty business. He and a group of mostly African-American followers, mostly Shia-affiliated (hence the Shi'a connection we can see with the founder of As-Sabiqun makes sense), had forcibly expelled the well-known and very moderate legitimate imam, taking over the mosque, and the legal owner was reluctant to involve the police, trying to find some peaceful solution. Eventually, though, as the situation got uglier and uglier -- there was a murder --, the police were called in and the invaders expelled. So al-Asi then started holding services on the sidewalk, and has continued to do so for many years.

Some people are *really* stubborn! The classical solution, if you don't like the management of a mosque, is to start your own. By tradition, it could be four stakes driven in the ground, marking a space to be treated as sacred. It's assumed you or a trust own the property or have legal control of it!

Other American Muslims are described on that site, mostly jihadists who have affiliated with or who have supported al-Qa'ida. Just so you folks know, if they were to come into power, the first people they would kill would be people like me, I've been threatened. One or two of the Muslims described may be mostly anti-Zionist, but that easily shades into antisemitism, as the RW article notes. --Abd (talk) 16:28, 29 February 2012 (UTC)