Talk:Atheist clergy

Just wondering about the title. I guess it's using "atheist" as an adjective but the result is potentially ambiguous, but wouldn't "atheistic" be better. Perhaps "atheistic clergy" would be less ambiguous? Or "atheistic clerics" or "clergymen" or "priests" or something.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 20:27, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I must admit I found the title slightly unweildy and obscure. Slam (talk) 20:29, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I tried to suggest that to the author, he didn't really seem to care. ;-) An atheist clergy is a clergy for the atheist community. which do, by the way, exist. especially in states like mass where by law, you need a clergy to perform weddings. On the other hand, one who happens to be an atheist AND clergy is a clergy who has become athist, but remained a clergy. That's very unclear. thatsaid.. (GodotI live in the Infinite monkey cage 20:31, 13 December 2011 (UTC)) (edit con)

@Bob M: Well, I consider "atheist," like "Christian," to be both a noun and an adjective. That's how most people seem to use it, too; I don't see "atheistic" used much, even when it's the technically correct word.

Furthermore, I can see this article being expanded to discuss atheist clergy beyond the five discussed in the study. In that case, "clergy" is generic as you can get (outside of the unnecessarily multisyllabic "religious leaders"). "Cleric" is specific to some religions (try telling a Rabbi they're a "cleric"), clergymen is gender-specific (there are religions that allow female clergy, you know), and Evangelicals prefer "preacher" over "priest"—"priest" has Catholic connotations. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 20:35, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I moved this to Daniel Denette's page, since it's not about atheist clergy or clergy for atheists - it's about one single study. There might be an article here, but this one is really too focused.GodotI live in the Infinite monkey cage 20:38, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Article isn't really useful as framed

Ok, and so what? there are 10 priests who have become atheists. There are 20 imams who are still imams but are also atheist. I really do not see the point of this being an entire article. GodotI live in the Infinite monkey cage 20:31, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Actually, thinking about it, this might make an interesting essay, where someone can address a particular experience or something? GodotI live in the Infinite monkey cage 20:32, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

(EC) It's a potentially interesting subject, but I don't think the current treatment is much good. If it's just going to be a synopsis of this one book, then it should be an article about that book & titled as such. If it's going to be an article about atheist clergy, it needs more examples & less specific detail about the individual guys in Dennett & LaScola's study. & Either way, it should be a bit less anecdotal & get to the point more. ωεαşεζøίɗ^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 20:37, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I would offer something like this - it's not complete, but it's more to the point. (Not well written either).

User:WaitingforGodot/atheist clergy GodotI live in the Infinite monkey cage 20:47, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't think I would agree with you about the atheist community needing "clergy" or some equivalent. Re Christian (or other) clergy who become atheists, wp:Dan Barker is a notable example (now co-president of Freedom from Religion). Apparently, he continued preaching for a while after losing his faith & while trying to sort his life out, since it was the only career he knew. Barker, Dennett, LaScola & Dawkins have recently set up a support group for atheist clergy, The Clergy Project. More info. ωεαşεζøίɗ^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 20:58, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

That's why i didn't change this page. I personally would probably jsut delete it, but there might really be a "thing" out there about atheists who have stayed in the clergy. as for why clergy is important, there are tons of writers writing blogs and articles about the need for something clergy-like. but that's not really "atheist clergy". GodotI live in the Infinite monkey cage 21:20, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Redirect

I've turned it into a redirect because the Atheism article links here and that article is randomly featured on the main page. I suggest leaving the Dennett study where is is, we can write more about atheists in the clergy and summarise the Dennett study with a link here. I'm not Jesus (talk) 20:56, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

If you haven't already done so, you also might redirect from the title of the study/book. I think I have the title right, but I"m not sure, so didn't want to make a redirect myself.GodotI live in the Infinite monkey cage 21:21, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I've removed the link here from atheism as there isn't currently a "main article" on atheist clergy, although there might be scope for recreating one if there is enough info & examples. I've also added in some info re the Clergy Project. ₩€₳$€£ΘĪÐ^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 21:24, 13 December 2011 (UTC)