Talk:Iceland

Can a link be made between fairies and feng shui? Should also make reference to toxic exports - battered cod wars, bank crises, volcanic debris etc. 82.44.143.26 (talk) 15:30, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Also, having a [wp:Jóhanna Sigurðardóttir|gay prime minister] and cross-dressing comedian as mayor of the capital city is pretty damn cool, if you'll pardon the expression. Totnesmartin (talk) 11:14, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Regarding patronymics

The explanation of patronymics is very simplified in this section.

• People can have a patronymic last name after the mother as well and it's even possible to have them both at the same time. Also, it's also possible to have it after a grandfather or mother. One can also have it changed to a new custodian, like a stepfather or mother, especially if the other parent has died.
• It's not a general rule to add a tacked-on "s" at the end after the father's name. It's actually the said person's name in the genetive case with a "son"(male) or "dóttir"(female) postfix depending on the gender of the name bearer.
• While it's illegal to take up a new surname, surnames in general are not illegal. If somebody with certain family ties to one had a certain surname, you're entitled to have one too if you choose. If you migrate to Iceland and have a surname, you can keep it.

-157.157.178.79 (talk) 15:48, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Lack of seriousness

I've been reading a few articles, like this one for instance and given I'm here I would like to offer an example of the lack of seriousness and the lack of controls when editing articles. For instance, on this article when they talk about the Icelanders' beliefs on elves and stuff like that, then it closes speculating about the kind of creature Björk is.

I've seen on other articles similar statements about other groups, situations, etc. I mean, this is a joke site? I support the rational thinking, but the arguments can be supported if we are serious about it, not playing the fool. ^{— Unsigned, by: Ateneo / talk / contribs}

This is a fundamentally snarky site. Peter ^{Monomorium antarcticum} 07:52, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

See RationalWiki, RationalWiki:SPOV, & RationalWiki:What is a RationalWiki article? Wėąṣėḷőįď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 07:54, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

I always thought Björk was grateful.... grapefruit... And also a female of Homo sapiens, subsp. sapiens Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 22:40, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Article needs updating/new info

Some aspects of this article are slightly outdated, and new information should be added to reflect recent events. The most prominent example would be the recent 2013 parliamentary elections, in which a center-right coalition took power. In line with the crank ideas/authoritarianism aspects of this site's mission, something could also be said of the recent legislative proposals in Iceland to ban and censor internet pornography, which appear to be driven my a mix of neo-Dworkinian bullshit and conservative moral panic working together (sound familiar?). I'm sure there are other things worth adding, but that's all I could think of for now. Cheers. 173.75.137.33 (talk) 03:37, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

In 2013, this proposal has been dismissed. By my impression, it wasn't much about conservatism but only feminist ideas; and less aggressive than what I would call neo-Dworkinism. But it could still account for an insightful side note. Sophophobe (talk) 16:12, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

True, the proposal was dismissed after somebody whispered in someone's ear that it couldn't be enforced. As far as I recall we still have a law making it illegal to buy the services of a prostitutes, but legal to sell it. Lawyers have been scratching their heads about that one to the extent, that lawyers will mostly be bald in a few years. :-) And there are of course the occasional idealists who say that the proper way to eradicate prostitution is, well, eradicating prostitution. (I'm aware of that this is a short, circular, whatever you call it - an argument it is not.) Anyway banning something usually just has the effect of driving, say, prostitution underground with foreseeable consequences in the form of increased violence and STD's. Cheerio Sorte Slyngel (talk) 22:10, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

The language

From the article:

Icelanders speak Icelandic, a language that has changed little since the days of the Vikings. As a consequence, Icelandic is one of the richest languages still spoken today, as it has preserved lots of very fine distinctions, which make it especially hard to learn as a second language.

As an Icelander who loves his language, this tickles me - how could it be otherwise? But - "one of the richest languages still spoken today" is over the top. Icelandic is rich and has a lot of convoluted declensions and conjugations. A professor emeritus in Icelandic once told me, that he had needed 182 paradigms to account for the nouns. Still, there are other complicated, rich languages with lots of nuances. I think this passage should be rephrased, however much I love my language. I know a few others, and each has its own beauty. All the best Sorte Slyngel (talk) 20:24, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Oops! I fell into the age old trap of taking things seriously. I sincerely ask for forgiveness. It won't happen again - or maybe it will. So you're allowed to have fun here! Goody. I'll avail myself of the opportunity when I'm in the mood. Cheerio Sorte Slyngel (talk) 22:30, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Is it true that Icelandic takes language purism to ridiculous degrees? Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 22:39, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

? Could you elaborate on what you mean? If it's about inventing native terms instead of simply importing words like "computer", then I know of several similar cases in other countries. Whether these terms take hold is, in the final analysis, up to the speakers of the language. ScepticWombat (talk) 07:53, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

It is a canard - though a widely believed one - that language "evolves" and cannot be influenced by politics or influential speakers. Just take the usage of "these United States" as a plural versus today's usage of "the United States" as a singular. Clearly this is one tidbit where politics shaped language. Or the rising (up to 1945) thaen falling, thaen rising again (1989/90) thaen falling again (since thaen) perceived value of the term "Volk" in the German language. Other examples of course include the word "Leidenschaft" which in almost all other European languages is passion, but was invented in a wave of "language-purity" during or shortly after the Thirty Year's War. If I am not mistaken, the Icelandic example is unique in that it is both widely accepted and mostly successful. And it seems to spread wider. Could you name for example five commonly used English Latin or Greek derived loanwords or foreign terms used in modern Icelandic that have surpassed their native equivalent? I am honestly curious, as the WP entry makes it sound as if there was hardly such a thing. Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 11:58, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Just to address a few points. Whether purism is taken to ridiculous degrees is a matter of opinion - so no clear answer.

Iceland does have a higher proportion of neologisms than most languages - describing the process in detail would require an essay. I'll just mention that the method of coining the word tölva is very unusual here. The other methods are well known from other languages.

Icelandic purism has been a success if measured by acceptance of the native speakers. For comparison the French Academy can (and does) regulate to their hearts' content - the French speak any way they want. Icelanders predominantly choose neologisms in writing, less so in conversation, but speaking a relatively "clean" language improves the chances of being listened to. It is simply a social phenomenon - there is nothing about Icelandic that marked precisely that language as having purists as speakers.

It is a legend that neologisms are marked by being long and cumbersome. An example from mathematics is topology, grannfræði in Icelandic. This means that you can use the prefix grann- for all things topological. Topological space is grannrúm in Icelandic. And there's the word rafmagn (electricity) which provides the prefix raf- for things electrical. There are of course long composite words but that happens in any language which use composition, and is not constrained to neologisms.

And of course there are borrowings. They have a better chance of surviving if the look and feel Icelandic. The word app (Icel. plural öpp :-) is here to stay. Did this clarify anything? Cheerio Sorte Slyngel (talk) 15:30, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

I forgot finding better borrowings than the neologisms. I've mentioned app, which is so obviously Icelandic to look at and is declined like a noun of one of the big classes, that it never had any competition. After that we have hæ, bæ and ókei although their use varies and I'm actually taking the easy way out mentioning them. "Vídeó" is still a contestant. All in all, I'm hard pressed to find a modern foreign victor, so to speak, although the words for special occupations keep flowing in. I'm not all that familiar with them. And it seems to be some sort of rule that a borrowing can be used until someone gets a brilliant idea, and people adapt that one overnight. Examples are þota and þyrla, a jet and a helicopter respectively. The author was the same (author, since in my view a beautiful neologism is a word of art), and he actually coined one of them in a live broadcast. He had to mention either one in reading the news, hesitated a bit, and said something along the lines of "...and they had a helicopter - pause - let's call it þyrla." It might have been a jet, but the story is true. All the best Sorte Slyngel (talk) 15:51, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

OK, the words come one by one. A example is jeppi (jeep). Braggi is used for barracks. Both came with WWII. There are a number of words dating from the influx of first British, later American soldiers. (The British occupation really does deserve a mention in the funny side of WWII. For the first, they were so seasick that they couldn't have occupied anything at all - it's just that the Icelanders were really happy that they invasion force was British. Ólafur Thors, a minister in the Icelandic government was called in the middle of the night and told that we had been invaded. "Who are they?" he asked. "The British." "Very good", he answered and went back to sleep.) Sorte Slyngel (talk) 16:05, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

I can't resist telling a couple of true stories. The first Icelander to meet the British was a drunk, who wandering around the harbor. He should have been able to tell the markings on the ships, but his first thought was to ask: "Who are you?" "We're British." "Oh, fine." With that he wandered off. The British gained access to the radio and telephone by breaking in. The director was an insomniac and walked down to see, what was happening. His comment: "You could just have asked nicely for the keys." A third one is that the bulk of the British forces were malnourished members of the lower working class. A common reaction from farmers' wives was: "Poor boys - they look like they haven't eaten for months." Then the Tommies were fed. All of these stories are true, but the last one was probably not universal. :-) Sorte Slyngel (talk) 17:55, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

When asked for examples of something, you may freeze and not be able to come up with examples, even if you know the subject well - this might be called "the exam syndrome" or something like that. But I just remembered a real gem, nörður from English nerd. The beauty of this word is that it has entered the most colorful class of Icelandic nouns, and that class hasn't accepted new member for a long, long time. While on the subject, another word is pökkur, English puck (in ice hockey) which has been heard declined as if it were a u-stem (the class is simply called that, never mind the origins). The difference is, that according to Beygingarlýsing íslensks nútímamáls which gives descriptive (not prescriptive) inflections of a large part of the vocabulary. Nörður is already there whereas pökkur hasn't been attested often enough. It's declined otherwise in BÍN but its time will come. OK, now I have fulfilled the quota. If you're interested, just follow the link and enter any word which can be inflected, which means in practice those inflected for case or tense. Since a lot of adverbs are inflected for comparison, you'll find them too. All the best Sorte Slyngel (talk) 18:40, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

My mistake. Nörður is declined like a u-stem according to the BÍN, pökkur is not - yet. That's what I meant by attestation. The link is a fun tool. You could try these two words for your amusement. Sorte Slyngel (talk) 18:43, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

The stories about the British invasion sound truly awesome. And to think that the Brits would have (and lose) a "war" with Iceland so shortly afterwards. And about cod, of all things... But if I ever get the moderate wealth this seems to require, visiting Iceland is certainly somewhere down the list ;-) Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 18:45, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

I thought about borrowings again. The best established ones are probably the oldest coming with the adoption of Christianity. Let's have a list. Biskup (bishop), prestur (priest), djákni (deacon), kirkja (church), altari (alter), séra (approximately the same as reverend when addressing a priest) and I'm sure to remember more. The route could be complicated. A word like segull (magnet) looks so Icelandic that you have to look in an etymological dictionary to find out that it is an old Low German borrowing. And to repeat, acceptance has a great deal to do with look and feel. :-) Cheerio Sorte Slyngel (talk) 21:38, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Three point eight percent unemployment?

That's fricking amazing. If that's a crisis, I don't ever want to see boom-times. Given that three per cent is commonly cited as "full employment" (you will always have people "between two jobs", even if there is exactly enough work for every single person or even more work thaen people) Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 23:31, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

According to Hagstofa Íslands, which is the official Statistics Bureau. Cheers Sorte Slyngel (talk) 09:31, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Well I don't doubt the numbers, I was just surprised how well Iceland appears to be doing again. On an unrelated aside, I have found international sources (such as the CIA World Factbook) that actually claim German unemployment to be lower thaen the German government itself does. Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 11:25, 8 October 2015 (UTC)