Talk:Self help/Archive1

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Passages

I was gonna add Passages to the list, but I'm too lazy to look up the author and write a brief synopsis. Oh, and isn't Gibran's little tome one of these? human 21:24, 17 December 2007 (EST)

Skeptical movement?

Is this just referring to people with critical thinking skills, applying those skills to these sorts of of movements, or is there something more to the term? One of the comments on one of the books talks about how the book is too religious to be of use to the skeptical movement - not sure I follow the connection...PFoster 12:26, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

I just removed that part, but is skepticism no longer basically synonymous with freethought, which is a catch-all term for atheistic and agnostic views? I seem to recall getting a similar reaction when I started the Alcoholics Anonymous article which has me puzzled. Secret Squirrel 17:20, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

I think the problem with a phrase like that is it tends to group all, say, "freethinkers" as holding the same ideas. I'm not really sure why, but whenever one of our editors who shall remain nameless talks about "freethinkers" I cringe a little - which is bizarre, since I iz one. Perhaps I actually feel like, rather than identifying as open-minded, I feel like I am being put in a box? Oh, and as far as that book, surely a skeptic or freethinker would have no trouble translating "out" the god bothering and filtering for whatever the author may have to say that is of value to them? That's usually how I read this genre, at least. human 18:15, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

Okzorz, I think I grok that...freethinker, skeptic, can't be put into box even as regards atheism, got it! I see another description that needs fixed too. Secret Squirrel 18:33, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for trying to understand :) By the way, one that really gets on my nerves is that silly "Brights" thing. I prefer the darkness, or at least subdued lighting. human 19:16, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

Book list order

Shouldn't it really be alpha by title, with the author listed second? I know it would be a lot of work to fix, but still... ħuman 01:35, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

They should also list the year they wuz writ. And the thing I corrected the commas on (Peale's book) is wrong, Carnegie's was way ahead of him. ħuman 01:38, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Multi-sortable table, maybe? ħuman 01:39, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Could be arranged either way, except some authors have several books that aren't all worth mentioning separately. Robert Schuller and that Trudeau guy come to mind. Secret Squirrel 01:44, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Hence the sortable table? Also, are any of Trudeau's books even listed? ħuman 03:03, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Doonesbury? Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 07:40, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Not that Trudeau, you dumb fuck! Oops, I mean, you delightful conributor! ħuman 08:20, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Ah, that Trudeau. I finally saw one of his ads last night from the beginning (well, 15 seconds of it...), KT is that guy. He was hawking some get rich quick book, subtitled, of course "what they don't want you to know about...". Cool. ħuman 18:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Topics

I was going to arrange the books into a sortable table but noticed that the list is a bit of a mish-mash of self-help books and business-management. If you start including business books then why not Teach Yourself Economics? I would suggest restricting the list to more "personal" topics. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 08:23, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I would sort-of agree with you. ħuman 08:27, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Alcoholics Anonymous is hardly self help, I think that should be taken out. --PitchBlackMind 16:22, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough, AA is more like group-help than self-help. The business books are borderline cases, a lot of them are found in both the business and self-help sections and are full of pop psychology. Who Moved My Cheese and Think and Grow Rich are definitely as much self-help as business; Thriving on Chaos, more of a strictly business book. Maybe take out the business books which are only tangential to the self-help genre. I'm basically in agreement with the above. Secret Squirrel 21:40, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I just remembered that it was me that added the Reader's Digest Do-It-Yourself Manual. Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member} 22:00, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I really appreciate the growing table, thanks. I guess I could try to help by digging out some pub dates... I'll wait til you're done to avoid ECs though. ħuman 22:56, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I've stopped now. If you think any of the others should be moved into the table then go ahead, otherwise we should delete them. I;ve just left them in for the time being. I think Javascap's book should go in to add some site snark. Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member} 23:12, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll dig up some dates, ought to be fairly easy. I agree on Javascap's book. ħuman 23:53, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

On the disputed books, my take is:

1. Alcoholics Anonymous - remove, it's more group help than self help
2. Bach, Richard, Jonathan Livingston Seagull — remove, even though it's widely read by the same sort who devour self-help it is fiction and not presented as a self help book
3. Covey, Stephen, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People — keep. This is as much a pop psychology and self help book as a business book.
4. Johnson, Spencer, The One-Minute Sales Person, The One-Minute Manager, and several other "One-Minute" books — remove, mainly about developing business skills.
5. Johnson, Spencer, Who Moved My Cheese? — keep, even though marketed toward business it is a pop psychology, change-your-attitudes kind of book.
6. Hubbard, L. Ron, Dianetics — remove. Marketed as "self help" and that is where it is found in bookstores, but it is really a teaser to woo people to visit the CO$ for auditing sessions.
7. Peters, Tom, In Search of Excellence and Thriving on Chaos — remove, mainly business books.
8. Schwartz, David, The Magic of Thinking Big - keep, this one is very much in the vein of Think and Grow Rich.
9. Trudeau, Kevin (anything) - definitely covers several areas, alt-med, self help, other things. Probably remove since they're mainly alt-med books and already well covered elsewhere.
10. Readers Digest Do It Yourself Manual - I've not read it but isn't this more of a home repair manual? Probably remove.

Secret Squirrel 00:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

The Seagull thing I think might stay. Dianetics too. Trudeau, make it a see also? I agree on all the others. ħuman 01:45, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Javascap's book looks like it has already been written. http://www.amazon.com/Shut-Stop-Whining-Get-Life/dp/047177345X Secret Squirrel 00:59, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

How come The Secret isn't on the list? It has a sequel, a movie, and (anecdotal evidence alert) I once got on a subway after being knifed in the hand and a random passenger suggested reading the book instead of going to a doctor. Doesn't get crazier than that. 89.175.18.90 (talk) 11:04, 14 May 2012 (UTC)