Talk:Space advocacy
The legitimate issues[edit]
There are some - eg those mentioned here. Anna Livia (talk) 13:35, 22 September 2025 (UTC)
- That example is new to me. I don't have a biomedical background and the information space on this topic is polluted but I think that we are far from being confident that we could launch a three-year Mars mission in the 2030s without space-related medical crises (and if the mission can survive kidney failure, do we really need the astronauts at all?) This whole topic is very broad and we do not have many related pages (the late Jerry Pournelle was a race science enthusiast as well as a SF writer and space advocate; Mars One looks like it was a scam). I am still trying to source some of the rhetoric about "maybe we need to kill more astronauts" from the 2000s. Polydamas (talk) 16:39, 22 September 2025 (UTC)
- There are various other reports from equally reputable sources (and a Wikipedia article) - and one can assume that there will be other medical issues (and not just from cosmic rays for an extended period).
- Mars Base One will have to be set up and fully operational for some time (eg developing Martian-sandstorm-compliant exterior walls and/or multi-level mine-equivalents) before humans can go there.
- Mars One proposed sending four astronauts to Mars first and worrying about getting them back later. There are enough doubtful or bollocks ideas in space advocacy, including handwaving of the dangers of freefall and cosmic rays, that I don't want to get distracted with questions like "should humans be in space at all?" where experts disagree.
- Even today, the private space companies focus on launch systems and satellites and let public space agencies research closed-loop life support. Polydamas (talk) 05:42, 23 September 2025 (UTC)
Things I don't plan to cover[edit]
In the time available for this article I have had to leave some topics out or mention them very briefly through secondary sources.
- "Colony" "frontier" and why those are not the best ways of thinking about humans in space
- Details of interconnections between science fiction and space advocacy (many people write both, many space advocates say they were inspired by SF. von Braun even wrote a SF novel)
- Deathwish and space advocacy ("what does it matter if we destroy the biosphere to launch humanity or posthumanity into space!") Charlie Stross and Thomas Pynchon cover different sides of this.
- Criticisms of NASA eg. https://nasawatch.com/ or Cegłowski on Project Artemis
- Technical medical topics like the chemistry of Martian soil or moondust as breathing hazard
- Answering "should humans be in space at all?" (desire for lots of humans in space leads to bad thinking but its hard to object to a few modest space stations)
- Trump administrations attacking space science like climate monitoring while being keen on Moon or Mars missions (the whole American space science community seems panicked right now eg. Garrett Reisman on crewed missions or the Planetary Society on cuts to space science and unmanned programs)
More on weird space ideas from the USSR or Japan would be helpful (Clarke and Freeman Dyson were British). There was lots of science fiction anime before the American live action Netflix boom. Polydamas (talk) 17:31, 22 September 2025 (UTC)
- There should be some mention of genuine medical issues (eg the kidney stones problem mentioned above), the economics, provisions and other issues (how do you plan for what will be required [journey time] months ahead, and what if there is a delay (especially if un-pre-plannable for) - with links to sources going into more detail (rather than explaining here).
- And most of us, who are likely to be at 'popular level understanding of psychology' can deduce some of the issues likely to occur in a group of people who have no means of escape from each other and an uncertain future (vague knowledge of Antarctic bases during the winter months) who have no means of displaying the conspicuous consumption that goes with their wealth. :Anna Livia (talk) 10:47, 24 September 2025 (UTC)
- The psychology would be a good fit under "Apes in cans." I have Mary Roach's book but it has no index. I can also mention hibernation and cold sleep under "transhumanism." Right now, the health issues are split between "anarcho-capitalism" (no, the worst thing that can happen is not that you blow yourself up) and "apes in cans." I might have time to expand them.Polydamas (talk) 04:45, 25 September 2025 (UTC)
- Can I mention “The man who publishes a book without an index ought to be damned 10 miles beyond hell, where the Devil himself cannot get for stinging nettles.” — John Baynes (1758-1787) Anna Livia (talk) 12:34, 25 September 2025 (UTC)
- The psychology would be a good fit under "Apes in cans." I have Mary Roach's book but it has no index. I can also mention hibernation and cold sleep under "transhumanism." Right now, the health issues are split between "anarcho-capitalism" (no, the worst thing that can happen is not that you blow yourself up) and "apes in cans." I might have time to expand them.Polydamas (talk) 04:45, 25 September 2025 (UTC)
Side topics without their own pages[edit]
We don't have central hubs for Robert Bigelow or Luis Elizondo (aside from Wikipedia see Jason Colavito's blog on these living persons). Nor Skinwalker Ranch. I have relied heavily on links to Wikipedia because weird space advocates seem to be underserved on RW. Polydamas (talk)
We have no hub for the Space Shuttle, even though it is an excellent starting point for learning about bad engineering organizations and angry anti-government politics in the USA. Polydamas (talk) 15:41, 25 September 2025 (UTC)
General thoughts[edit]
Getting copyediting and comments from two people other than the six or so main editors on the draft encourages me to keep going on this complex page. This is trickier than a page on someone who posts lots of opinions as text. I think building a wide pool of editors and readers would help us defend against further attacks from the Thielsphere. Polydamas (talk) 05:52, 26 September 2025 (UTC)
If there are no objections I will publish this page on Monday 28 September. Polydamas (talk) 15:40, 27 September 2025 (UTC)