Talk:Steven Dutch

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Why I Created This Page

Since Steven Dutch does not even have a Wikipedia page, and since he takes very bold stances on refuting the anti-science movement (which is one of Rational Wiki's stated goals), I decided to create this page. While he presents several attractive ideas in the first link, I cannot help but question his insistence on equating the design of a deity to the design of natural selection. BassoonsAreSexy (talk) 06:03, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Misrepresentation of Professor Dutch's position

I believe the following does not accurately summarize the professor's position or even the page it references.

"However, one theme that is consistent throughout his website is his insistence that theology be placed on equal grounds as science ... He claims that Dawkins' critique of religion is unjustified, as both natural selection and deities are self-explaining."

The passage is inaccurate as a summary of the article, because nowhere in the article does the author suggest that science is no more objective than theology. He makes the point that Richard Dawkin's reasoning is flawed, since the same reasoning logically eliminates the possibility of natural selection. The passage is inaccurate as a representation of professor Dutch's personal views as stated in several places: "If your religion says something that conflicts with objective evidence, your religion is wrong." http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pscindx.htm I think the passage quoted from the Wiki needs to be heavily modified to remove the inaccurate slant. I'll come up with a suggested modification forthwith.^{— Unsigned, by: 75.172.68.227 / talk / contribs}

I also think that paragraph his represents his stance on the theology-science debate. What Prof. Dutch often contends is that theology is every bit as rational, intelectual and internally logical as science, and that the difference between the two isn't placed in those aspects, but in the fact that science is reality and factual evidence based, while theology rests on the bible and in personal experiences to draw evidence. This is a good point, because when someone argues on behalf of science entering into a theological debate, often makes the mistake of not being sufficiently informed of the theology they wants to discuss.^{— Unsigned, by: 193.144.85.128 / talk / contribs}

Dutch attacks both religious people whose beliefs conflict with science, and most atheists, seeming to accept the common argument that absent God life has no meaning, all morals are mere opinions, etc. I don't know for sure, but it seems he's either religious but accepts evolution, or a disgruntled non-religious person who relies on false equivalence arguments regarding both (something, ironically, he attacks others for). Mcc1789 (talk) 04:32, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

This should clear things up regarding his religious views. TheShadow25 12:27, 15 June 2013

"Affiliation of Christian Geologists"? Wow. So my first guess was correct then. Mcc1789 (talk) 03:45, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

It really is a surprise. I think it's worthy to mention that Steve Dutch seems to express disapproval of the Old Testament killings such as here. I was also convinced he was a disgruntled non-religious person, but it seems that's not the case. TheShadow25 11:59, 30 July 2013

Liberal Christians (which it seems Dutch likely is) aren't fond of the Old Testament massacres, so it's not surprising. Of course, it remains in their Bible, so how I'm not sure how they reconcile that. Overall Dutch's world view appears to be "a plague on both their houses" as reflected in his blog, [1]] which is subtitled as "Equal opportunity offender of liberals and conservatives." Mcc1789 (talk) 03:28, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

A bit late to the party, but Steven Dutch has been very active on Quroa and some of his answers there shed a very clear light on his positions, openly describing himself as a "believer" and arguing for some form of intelligent design. Might be worth picking trough for those interested with some spare time: https://www.quora.com/profile/Steve-Dutch 188.174.194.221 (talk) 20:26, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

That's odd, as he seems to support evolution strongly. I guess for him they are compatible?Mcc1789 (talk) 00:39, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

9'11 truthers

In September 2011 someone added "Aside from Scientific and Technological discussions, he has shown disdain the 9/11 truth movement" with a link. This sentence stayed unchanged till January 2014. This month I added a link to the 9-11 conspiracy theories article which I was sure improved the wiki. Powdery, Smoky Leather reverted this, I suspect he thought I'd written the sentence instead of just adding a link. Below is a quote from the link.

9-11 conspirators seem to be a mix of liberals still smarting over 2000 and ultra-conservatives angry that George Bush Jr. hasn't opened the national parks to a land rush. But if Dubya orchestrated a massive conspiracy to bring down the World Trade Center as a pretext for launching a Mideast War, why didn't he pull off the far simpler trick of faking the discovery of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? Think of it - his biggest political liability could have been avoided with a piddling investment in special effects, Bush would be seen as America's savior, his strategy would be completely vindicated, and he'd be politically unassailable. All it would take would be spritzing an empty factory with the ingredients for nerve gas, with just enough cross-contamination to create a whiff of the real thing. Yet for some strange reason he didn't do it. [2]

Where are the errors? I have reinserted the material and extended it slightly. Proxima Centauri (talk) 11:05, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Basic questions of capitalization and a missing preposition. Do you not read what you write? PowderSmokeAndLeather (talk) 14:25, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Also, the writing was astonishingly poor. Really bad. Look at the difference between my edits and what was there before. Write like that. PowderSmokeAndLeather (talk) 14:30, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Steve Dutch's university web page

It's been wiped. His links are all gone.^{— Unsigned, by: 173.77.182.197 / talk / contribs}

Please sign your comments.--King Rimuru 01:27, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Okay!--98.113.215.216 (talk) 14:40, 6 October 2018 (UTC)Krashlia

Also, its back under a new address. Here:

http://stevedutch.net ....--98.113.215.216 (talk) 14:40, 6 October 2018 (UTC)Krashlia

Do you know how to refute propertly anti-science/neo-luddite arguments?

The responses made by Steven Dutch are fine (at least from my viewpoint), but any sociologist/anthropologist/far-left intellectual would dismantle his critique as «superficial» or even «liberal (european meaning) propaganda». I think a better counter-argument should be made (considering those fields of studies) to curb the threat of the growing hard green/neo-luddite movement. Any suggestion? (Especially to deal with appeals to nature, to tradition, to emotions, to shame, Shill Gambits, Strawmen or perhaps Motte&Bailey, ad hominems and Courtier's Replies) Nitrato de Chile (talk) 11:11, 3 June 2021 (UTC)Nitrato de Chile