And Stalin was an atheist

Jump to navigation Jump to search

Well if you heard an Objectivist saying that giving to charity is immoral then he's certainly got the wrong end of the stick. Ayn Rand claimed that charity was morally neutral: that is one was allowed to do it but had no obligation to do it. Yaron Brook, who I have mentioned on many occasions now, has pointed out that when America was economical free there was, what somebody at the time called "an embarrassing" amount of private charity and there is nothing wrong with private charity at all because nobody wants to see people dieing in the streets. If you can give me that Objectivist's name I'd be grateful as he/she needs a good talking to.

Many libertarians are highly individualistic too, but yes, one of the many tenets of Objectivism is that your life belongs to you and that another person's need is not a moral claim upon it. If you see somebody going hungry and you don't like it then you are perfectly welcome to give away 90% of your wage slip/profits to help that person, but that person does not have a right to point a gun at your head and take it if you don't and he doesn't have a right to hire a force wielding third party like the government of the Mafia to do it for him either.

Incidentally when there is government teat-sucking there is a lot less private charity, when there is economic freedom there is a lot more. I'll find a few of Yaron Brook's lectures/radio interviews where he says just this. I'd certainly like to hear that radio interview you're talking about.

To put it simply individualism is about free choice: you are allowed to help those in need if you like but you are not forced to help them if you don't want to. In the real world, in a free society, most people are good and most people do want to help. Nothing in the world wrong with that.

PriorityQueue (talk)18:26, 2 November 2011

I'd like to give you that person's name, but there have been sooooo damn many ARI people Thom Hartmann has debated over the years the fingering the correct one would be impossible. But, just the same, I'll look and see if I can find it, as I sorta remember about when that episode aired. It may have been Yaron Brooks for all I know (as he's been on Hartmann before). But, like I said, I'll look through the archives and see if I can find it.

Whoever it was it most certainly was not Yaron Brook! And there's not that many people at the ARI either. What exactly did he say? Sometimes we have an ear for hearing we want to hear. Did the person really say "it's immoral to give to charity" (i.e. you are not allowed to do it) or the actual Objectivist view, that held by Ayn Rand herself, that it is morally neutral (that you don't have to do it)? If it's your personal opinion that charity (or forced redistribution of wealth) is a moral obligation and you have certain preconceived ideas about what an Objectivist should say it's possible that you may have misunderstood what was said. Or rather heard what you wanted to hear.

Excuse my skepticism but I just don't believe anyone from the ARI would phrase it the way you claim they did. Read Ayn Rand's own words, I provided you with a link. You claimed earlier that Ayn Rand is the first and foremost voice on Objectivism (not so unreasonable) so the link I provided should show you what the Objectivist's view of charity is: morally neutral, allowed but not obligatory. That's the view that I share. What about your friend?

PriorityQueue (talk)19:27, 2 November 2011

Like I said, I'll look online when I have a minute and see if I can find the quote and the name.