Problem : science and religion done by the same "scientists"

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Problem : science and religion done by the same "scientists"

Hi Trent, as a psychologist you might have an opinion in such a case: newer science invalidates older: how to handle such an event not offending old "scientists" who still believe they are right.

Is it possible at all or one has to wait till the old guys die out...

It happened in RW where when Einsteinian gravitation replaced Wheeler's (with its Wheelerian creation of energy from nothing) the folks in RW don't want to accept Einstein's relativity of time and stick to the old Big Bang stuff arguing with me that I must be an idot supporting Einstein with his eternal universe that turned out to be correct Einstein's prediction. And making it even worse, they kept deleteing my essay about it, which made me a little bit nervous and I started not behaving as a coolbloded scientist should. Which I regret but more I care about an answer from a psychologist.

JimJast (talk)17:48, 15 March 2011

The RW mainspace is not the place to publish your unified theory, we have a respect for science and expertise derived from billions of man hours of the collective work of the scientific community. In other words, expect the peer reviewed scientific consensus to dominate RW articles. The essay space is another matter, and there was a bit of an issue there but I think its resolved.

As for altering existing theories within the scientific community, Thomas Kuhn is the place to turn (with some caveats). But basically for a major shift to occur there have to be an increasing number of problems with existing theories or questions that can not be answered, and the proposed alternative must answer all questions the old model did plus make major in roads into the new questions. Or in other words, your idea has to be better than the old idea.

While individual scientist maybe reticent or have a vested interest the scientific community will eventually see the light. Check out the story of the Helicobacter pylori and stomach ulcers. Evidence wins out in the end.

If an idea is not sound, is not better than existing ideas, and can not make specific predictions which can be tested, then it rightfully will not surpass established theories.

Tmtoulouse (talk)19:25, 15 March 2011

1. I'm not talking here about my theory but Einstein's.

2. Since 1965 when I found accidentally that he was right (also accidentally, and that's why he couldn't prove it) about his idea of stationary universe I'm trying to find out what went wrong with his cosmological constant which he considered "the biggest blunder of his life" (which it might be, but he was only a brilliant physicists, not an applied mathematician. I found that he was just cheated by applied mathematicians whose belief in God was stronger than in a rational brain and honesty.

3. Since I already proved mathematically that the universe might be stationary and eternal despite looking expanding, and also how this apparent expansion should look in our universe, and that it does as predicted by Einstain's theory (which just means that both Einstein's theory and me, might be right, but not necessarily since the precision observations is limited).

So we need more evidence.

4. Then ccomes help to proponents of the Big Bang hypothesis from pure math and Einstein himself and the mathematicians notice the opportunity to sneak God in ito the picture.

Einstein said that "he stopped to understand his theory when mathematicians started explaining it to him" He believed them when they told him that the metric of spacetime tensor has to be symmetric (which is true for all metrics up to three dimenssions, not for 4th dimenssion though). So Einstein assumed symmetric metric for his theory including gravitation. Only in 1950, in his "On the Generalized Theory of Gravitation" published in April issue of "Scientific American" he gave up his idea of symmetric metric tensor. It was too late and cosmology went on with symmetric matric tensor of spacetime preserving God as creator of energy from nothing and causing the universe to expand through its divine intervention (since it couldn't be done with the help of physics, which Einstein might have known).

5. As Hertz once said: "some theories are wiser than their creators". Since we are rather sure that creation of something from nothing is impossible (even if it is still a popular idea among crationists and if it does not apply to souls :) Einstein as an atheist couldn't believe in creation of energy from nothing despite Wheeler's Big Bang and not knowing how to prove mathematicians wrong, just kept his doubts doing nothing

6. So today I'm trying to protect Einstein theory from phony "theory" by 3 applied mathematicians Charles W. Misner, Kip S. Thorne, both still alive, and John Archibald Wheeler (already dead), authors of 1279 page "Bible" titled "Gravitation". AThe gentlemen call themselves theoretical physicists added to Einstein's theory (after his death) three axioms, to "prove" the existnce of God but never mentioned in their monograph, that 23 years earlier Einstein gave up his symmetric metric of spacetime. Some astrophysicists suspected something fishy when they learn from Catholic professors that energy can be created "somehow". Not many protested though... And today creation of energy from nothing is third axiom of "theoretical physics" (one can't prove that one can't since one can't prove a negative proposition), which with God axiomized already is not that easy to fix. At least by Catholic professors or priests who love cosmology.

7. Creationists call their doctored theory Einstein's theory or the Big Bang "theory" on other occasions (despite it is not a theory but only a 3 lame axioms: (i) that universe is expanding)("somehow": presumably by the action of "dark energy"), (ii) that the spacetime is curved (either positively or negatively: just somehow" but is not "flat" since then energy couldn't be created out of nothing, for mathematical reasons, which some people mix with curved space, a necessary feature of space), and (iii) that energy can be created ("somehow"). The support for this action comes from The Templeton Foundation as illustrated by a grant of $1,600,000 to mathematician, physicist, astronomer, and Catholic priest Michael Heller) from whom I learned that he works on axiomization of "Einstein's" theory. Spooky?

8. How to contact Thomas Kuhn?

9. What are those caveats (is he a member of Opus Dei by any chance? :)

JimJast (talk)01:15, 22 March 2011