Trying to prevent RationalWiki judging Christianity too harshly

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Those of us who actually watch the news would like to point out that whenever the Church gets itself in the papers it's always about either a) it's stamping on gay marriage rights b) it's stamping on women's rights to be ordained or c) it's about another scandal. So I don't think this "mainstream media" accusation really holds up to scrutiny. Indeed, religion is getting a pounding on all sides these days, you can't really use the depiction of Christianity in the popular media fuel a atheistic persecution complex.

Scarlet A.pngpostate14:48, 15 July 2012

The media certainly highlight scandal and controversy that attract readers television audiences etc. There's still the problem of fundamentalist children taught to fear hell and to keep unrealistic moral standards from an early age etc etc. That doesn't attract subscribers to media and tends to be ignored. There's the general problem of children in Christian households who don't get a balanced view and that happens in liberal Christian households as well as with fundamentalists.

There's a great deal wrong with Christianity that the media don't highlight and I feel we should deal with those issues.

Proxima Centauri (talk)18:05, 15 July 2012

"Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!!!!!!!"

Theory of Practice Peer-reviewed articles for everybody!18:20, 15 July 2012
 

So, what are the general stats of children being taught to fear hell? All of the self-described Christians I know actually don't buy into the concept of hell. At all. Indeed, it's not even mentioned in the Bible and hell as we know it today is mostly, if not entirely, ripped from Dante's Inferno.

Or are these people not True Christians?

Scarlet A.pngpostate18:23, 15 July 2012

That hits the nail right on the head. If your idea of Christianity is formed by reading CP, cherry-picking the worst polls, late-night AM radio and watching "Jesus Camp" instead of by actively seeking out contact and exchange with real people who might complicate the straw man that you've built as a result, then your entire approach is pretty useless.

Theory of Practice Years of being an atheism: 30. Instances of persecution on that account: 0.18:27, 15 July 2012

And if you're talking about those people, I think saying they're a dangerous breed to have around would be preaching to the choir on RW.

Scarlet A.pngpathetic18:38, 15 July 2012
 
Edited by author.
Last edit: 18:06, 16 July 2012

I suspect many liberal Christians are uncomfortable if anyone mentions Hell. They don't talk about it and may prefer not to think about it.

Edited to add:- This is based on my experience in the UK, i don't know how far it applies to liberal Christians in other nations.

Proxima Centauri (talk)06:29, 16 July 2012

most people in general are uncomfortable when you mention hell/other hell like place in their religion/mythology/blah

il'Dictator Mikal06:39, 16 July 2012
 

Proxie, do you mind not just making things up? "They don't talk about it and may prefer not to think about it."

No have no evidence for this, or any reason to state it.

Green mowse.pngGodotQu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons17:53, 16 July 2012

My experience of liberal Christians in the UK is that they don't talk about Hell but look uncomfortable if someone else brings up the subject. I'm tired of being accused of making things up when I'm telling the truth to the best of my ability. If things are different where you are please explain the difference.

Proxima Centauri (talk)18:01, 16 July 2012

Prox, everybody besides very specific groups (Such as the people most like the Left Behind Authors) get uncomfortable with Hell being brought up. Conservative and liberal christian alike.

il'Dictator Mikal18:06, 16 July 2012
 

I suspect many liberal Christians are uncomfortable if anyone mentions Hell. They don't talk about it and may prefer not to think about it.

=[edit]

Read your words. You did not say "those people I have met"... you did not say "the articles I've read seem to suggest".

you said "they (liberal Christians) don't talk about it and **May prefer not to think about it**. You have no idea what they are thinking or are not thinking and shouldn't guess.

Learning to be precise will get you out of lots of problems. But you fail on that over and over again.

For what it's worth, theologically most liberal Christians have no problem with hell, because a large number of theological potions, including in the UK, have shifted the discussion of "hell" as some afterlife place, to this actual earthly life. (I find that hard to fit into a biblical reading, but keep in mind, most liberal christians aren't overly concerned about the bible out side of what they like - as you yourself have pointed out).

Most formal liberal Theologies believe that deeds alone can save people (hence escaping that looming "but what if he's a good guy who just didn't get around to believing in Jesus".

Again, be precise, include your opinions AS opinions, and your relevant experience in your points and maybe I wouldn't jump down your throat for exaggerating, lying, or simply misunderstanding.

Green mowse.pngGodotQu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons18:12, 16 July 2012

Learning to be precise will get you out of lots of problems. But you fail on that over and over again.

The above is from Godot. Yes telling me what she thinks that way is humiliating, I'm sorry for her students if they must put up with that type of undermining instruction all the time. At least she's not accusing me of making things up anymore, she's just accusing me of stating things in a bad, non academic way. Facepalm.

It's easier to live with being called non academic than to live with being called a liar.

Proxima Centauri (talk)18:47, 16 July 2012
 

In the UK I have met many people who say you make your Hell here on Earth. I didn't think of them as liberal Christians, I thought of them as ignorant Christians because I know that's non-biblical. Also it takes no account of the many happy wrong doers here or of people whose life is Hell on earth through no fault of their own. On reflection I think Godot may be right, they are liberal Christians. Facepalm.

I don't know much in detail about what those who say Hell is something you make here believe. I don't discuss Hell in detail with them because I don't want to start getting them frightened.

Proxima Centauri (talk)18:56, 16 July 2012

You won't "get them frightened". If they are bothered at all, they will use cognitive dissonance to block out what you say all together. and if they aren't bothered, you might find an interesting conversation - or even a place to make them say "hey, maybe I don't need the facade of a God". But you should talk to them about it.

I'm sure you have things to share with them, that might make them think! (To me, personally, my goal is not to make atheists out of them - but at least make them THINKING christians).

Green mowse.pngGodotQu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons19:03, 16 July 2012