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Category talk:Islamism
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Islamism as fascism[edit]
Whether Islamism is a kind of fascism was previously not an issue. Not only is the main article on Islamism in the fascism category, but the fascism sidebar template is featured on that article. Additionally, I noted that individual Islamist orgs, namely Hamas, are also part of the fascism category. I invite those of you who disagree to discuss this so we can have uniformity across all articles.--Wellawellawell (talk) 21:32, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- "Islamism" can mean a lot of things. Fundamentally it just means the usage of Islam as a vehicle for a political agenda. There's Islamic feminism, Islamic socialism, Islamic modernism, the ultraconservative Sunni Wahhabist movements of DAESH and al-Qaeda, the religious nationalist movement of Hamas, Khomeinism... I don't find it to be a very meaningful term. Applying "fascism" to an already vague assemblage just makes it even more meaningless. Islamism can be fascist, but it is not itself fascist. Carthage (talk) 20:55, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- There is a reason why feminism and socialism are so rare within Islamism, which is overwhelmingly a right-wing ideology, and why feminists and socialists are put to the wall in any country where Islamists come to power. Islamism believes socially conservative interpretations of religious teachings from 1500 years ago should be the basis for politics. Such an ideology is inherently slanted towards reactionism. Furthermore, Islamic feminists and socialists are trying to reconcile their religion with modern secular teachings, which Islamism makes no pretense of doing. As for whether Islamism is fascism in particular, RW gives quite a few definitions of the latter. But it most broadly states that it is “characterized by its obsession with the nation and often race, severe regimentation of society, and extreme levels of political violence aimed at purifying and expanding the state.” Islamism is almost always accompanied by a religious conception of the state, whether that is a preexisting one (like Hamas’s Palestine) or a hypothetical one (like DAESH’s caliphate). It is also pretty much always accompanied by violence and persecution, whether it be against religious minorities or political enemies. Regarding severe regimentation of society, but most Islamists want to return to traditional semi-feudal social relations (as opposed to Islamic socialism). I will concede that “Islamofascism” as used by neoconservatives is often hypocritical and ignores western-aligned Islamists such as Saudi Arabia, though. --Wellawellawell (talk) 21:32, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- You don't know that much about Salafism, do you? Salafism is a modern movement that is based out of the same principles of jurisprudence (independent interpretation of the scriptures) that also give rise to Islamic socialism and feminism. It's not traditional Sunni jurisprudence, which tends to favor reasoning by consensus as opposed to individual interpretation of the texts. You're also conflating Salafism with Islamism. There is a difference. You seem to be confused on that matter. Carthage (talk) 21:35, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- There is a reason why feminism and socialism are so rare within Islamism, which is overwhelmingly a right-wing ideology, and why feminists and socialists are put to the wall in any country where Islamists come to power. Islamism believes socially conservative interpretations of religious teachings from 1500 years ago should be the basis for politics. Such an ideology is inherently slanted towards reactionism. Furthermore, Islamic feminists and socialists are trying to reconcile their religion with modern secular teachings, which Islamism makes no pretense of doing. As for whether Islamism is fascism in particular, RW gives quite a few definitions of the latter. But it most broadly states that it is “characterized by its obsession with the nation and often race, severe regimentation of society, and extreme levels of political violence aimed at purifying and expanding the state.” Islamism is almost always accompanied by a religious conception of the state, whether that is a preexisting one (like Hamas’s Palestine) or a hypothetical one (like DAESH’s caliphate). It is also pretty much always accompanied by violence and persecution, whether it be against religious minorities or political enemies. Regarding severe regimentation of society, but most Islamists want to return to traditional semi-feudal social relations (as opposed to Islamic socialism). I will concede that “Islamofascism” as used by neoconservatives is often hypocritical and ignores western-aligned Islamists such as Saudi Arabia, though. --Wellawellawell (talk) 21:32, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- I wouldn't put Islamism and Fascism together. Fascism is in principle nationalist, Islamism is in principle meant to transcend borders and is often fervently anti-nationalist.("He will die in a state of ignorance" and all that.)-Flandres (talk) 21:14, 14 August 2024 (UTC)