Conservapedia talk:Advantages of Small Classes

Superb!

100/100 for this fine essay Mr Turpis.

--Cayce Pollard 11:16, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

When he says College classes are large, he's (A Schlafly) right if he's referring to "Lectures" but in my experience "Classes" are considerably smaller and on occasion one to one. Cayce Pollard 11:25, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

You do mention, in your preamble, the remuneration aspect, but surely the notion of teachers being paid "per student" rather than "per unit time" is the greatest incentive for large classes, which probably over-rides all your others. LOL Cayce Pollard 12:27, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

As most teachers are not paid per student, but Andy is (to the tune of $250 each, or $12,500 for 50 students, which he at one point claimed to have) he clearly has an incentive to have larger classes. Sure, it takes him a little more time to grade, but we've seen his assignments. He can grade each in less than 5 minutes, and his tests are multiple choice, so they won't take any longer. (I'd like to see him grade 50 New York State Regents exams.) This larger=better notion of his is born out of his greed in an effort to justify packing as many little tykes as he can into his class. All the more do re mi for him. Imagine if he had so many students he had to teach TWO classes (which is what would happen in most public schools if enrollment reached 50). Suddenly he'd find himself having to work harder, and for no more money. Better just to lower standards. DickTurpis 12:40, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

Maybe this would be better as a side-by-side. Also large classes correspond more to a production line product rather than a hand-crafted executive model. In the UK it's normally the fee-paying schools which have smaller classes and the bog-standard state schools which have larger ones. 86.148.65.122 12:48, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

Hasn't he said somewhere that he "burns out" after marking four (4!) homeworks in a day? So with a class of 40 = ten days marking! Cayce_Recognition 12:56, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

I'd burn out after reading the same inane drivel over and over again too. But that's his problem. He should get some brighter students. As for the side by side comparison, I considered that, but the first part is all original, so it's not really conducive to that format. Anyway, anyone should feel free to add to this, if they have any ideas. DickTurpis 13:18, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

Schlafly's original statement can be found here. He was later called out on it, together with the spurious claim of having the largest history class in the known universe. That discussion can be found here. It is well worth a read. Andy is all over the place and accuses his interlocuteurs of hostility to prayer in schools, supporting unions and fostering professional laziness. Classic stuff.-- Antifly ^{Now with 50% less retirement!} 13:50, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

As always with CP, what's really fun here is not just the insanity of arguing for large classes against all rational evidence, but the ideological support for the argument. My favorite is the footnote, which taken with the article boil down to public school teachers are evil liberals trying to get more money who secretly know the public schools don't teach so they teach homeschool but are so evil and liberal they still try to keep small classes. Still trying to wrap my head around that one. --CWaddell 13:09, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, that one made no sense. So teachers often homeschool their kids? Where the fuck do they find time to do that if they spend the entire day teaching other people's kids? This is just a further example of Andy's "thought" process: conclusion first, then make up all sorts of crap to justify it. DickTurpis 13:15, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

He probably thought he was being real sneaky - those evil brainwashed teachers know deep inside that they're wrong but are so liberalized they can't admit it. Or maybe he meant the bad teachers who get fired try to homeschool and can't do it right? You know what, I dont' have a fucking clue what he meant. --CWaddell 13:18, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

Nice work. Is this intended as a personal essay or can anybody edit it? (It should probably have the essay banner to identify it either way). The only thing I would add is a slight elaboration on the subjects of cliques. Contrary to what Schlafly says, cliques are more likely to form in larger classes where students identify and interact with their personal friends rather than the class as a whole, while in smaller classes there is more of a group bond (not the same thing). As WP:Clique says, "Cliques tend to form within the boundaries of a larger group". weaseLOId~ 13:27, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

Edit away. And throw the banner on if you like. Or it could be removed from the Essay space. I only put it there because Andy had his in that space. I'll leave it up to others. DickTurpis 13:32, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

Thanks. I've put the banner on attributing it to you & anybody else, as you wrote most of it. Change to everybody if you prefer. weaseLOId~ 13:43, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

Really good essay! I'd say this would almost work as a point-by-point (like the atheist or the abortion articles) cause you (and others) really hit the nail on the head about Andy's assumptions. Like virtually everything else andy says, his "benefits" are pulled out of his ass with no real thought to them, and certinaly no study/authority to them. I see trees, so therefore: it must be a forest; there must be buffalo; the trees must be pine trees; it must be raining; humans live here. These are the kinds of arguments he makes. good refutation!14:40, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

Gold star for you! Do you want to make this side-by-side? Or at least bold or italicize which words or ideas are Mr. Schlafly's? Thunderkatz^Ho! 16:48, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

I think side-by-side is better as each point is addressed immediately. So, as it's in mainspace now you can improve it any way you want Thunderkatz. The bizarre thing about Andy's claims, which just shows how loony he is getting, is that nearly all of his so-called notable homeschoolers through history have been tutored individually or a small group rather than attending a massive class. Генгис^{Our ignorance is God; what we know is science.} 07:29, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

Format, namespace

May I suggest... 1, moving this to the CP namespace, since Mssr. Turnip does not want to "own" it; and 2, making the section that addresses Schlafly's tripe a "side by side", after the introductory discourse on why small classes are good. (1) will make it more likely that CP-fans will find it down the road, and (2) will make it very clear where we are quoting the idiot. Just my 0.017 or so. ħuman 17:57, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

Never mind point 2, as long as people think how I reformatted it is useful (I made Andy's bullets into subheaders). If it is hated, feel free to revert, but if you do copy the bit I added about parties here so it's not lost forever. ħuman 18:07, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

The new format is good. It could probably go in CP namespace. Even if Schlafly's essay gets forgotten, as most of them do, his promotion of large class sizes is a recurring theme, so we should keep this as an article addressing it. weaseLOId~ 18:38, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

Glad you like it. Luckily, all of Andy's bullets were short enough for it to work reasonably well. It sure makes it easier to edit in little bits! ħuman 22:04, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

Another thought

What do people think of also duplicating the talk page as an appendix below everything we have now? There's more of Andy being Andy there. Or, we could just quote his brilliangs, with enough context, and ref them with difflinks. What sayest thou, unruly mob? ħuman 22:07, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

I say burn the witch! Oh wait, wrong mob. My bad. Thunderkatz^Ho! 00:08, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

Maybe somebody create a larger CP commentary on Andy's beliefs about public school as a whole. Besides the obvious "I needz money" side to large class, small classes is evilz of liberal. --CWaddell 00:11, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

I've added a new section on the end addressing things the Schlfl said on the Talk page. weaseLOId~ 10:47, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

I think HJ also commneted on this comment from Andy but large social parties are pretty boring compared to small intimate occasions unless your objective is just to press flesh for political ends give me a dinner party of up to a dozen people (max) with good food and wine. There tends to be much more meaningful discussion than at some large event where you neve get past how your kids are doing or how much you're making on the stock-market. Генгис^{Our ignorance is God; what we know is science.} 13:45, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

brilliang teenagers

I finally thought of one relatively incontestable "teenage genius" - Rimbaud. ħuman 15:01, 15 November 2008 (EST)