Conservapedia talk:Reparative Therapy of Homosexuality

Intro

If you look in CP's history, there're some good quotes ... wait a sec, did they delete the reparative therapy page?!? JERKS. Anyways, check here. And pillage some of the NYT articles that Wikipedia cites. They're shockingly sad.-AmesG 21:00, 22 May 2007 (CDT)

Feel free to add!!!--PalMD^-Talk 21:05, 22 May 2007 (CDT)

The whole CP attitude regarding anything but missionary-position-white-male-and-female-in-the-dark-and-only-in-holy-wedlock-and-only-out-of-necessity sex is quite screwed up. And largely informed by the prejudices of Ed Poor, RobS and Roger Schlafly. I note with interest that the Doctor Nicoloski that's quoted in the article seems to be describing something eerily like Kinsey's scale with het on one end, homo on the other, and varying degrees of bisexuality in the middle. So this suggests that, if the reparative therapy model is actually based on that concept, that it requires the very bisexuality that CP vehemently denies the existence of, and legitimizes Kinsey, who seems to be regarded over there as about four steps below Satan. Fun stuff. --Kels 21:07, 22 May 2007 (CDT)

Honestly, I think they need to have more sex. It's just fun. Then they'd be less grumpy. Poor Mrs. Andy Schlafly.-AmesG 21:12, 22 May 2007 (CDT)

Ed in particular needs some loving gay sex. --Kels 21:15, 22 May 2007 (CDT)

Ask Rob, he's the one with the leather harnesses.--PalMD^-Talk 21:16, 22 May 2007 (CDT)

Nicely done Doc. A few things I thought might be worth adding: Socarides was an MD, not a PhD. He was also a psychoanalyst, not something CP looks upon fondly in general. And as far as I can tell calling anything he did "research" is vastly overstating the case. He has several articles (mostly in analytic journals) that are editorials or reviews, but if he ever published anything empirical in a journal I can't find it. Unsurprisingly, Seligman's research is misrepresented. Basically he initially reported that after aversion therapy half of gay men stopped acting on homosexual urges (a far cry from a cure of course, but I digress). But follow-up studies showed that most of those who stopped were actually bisexual, and that most of the subjects who were homosexual hadn't changed. Seligman explains this in What You Can Change and What You Can't: The Complete Guide to Self-Improvement. New York: Knopf, 1993. I thought I'd put it here on the talk page for comments before adding anything to the article. Nice to be among people who have a sane perspective on this stuff! Diabhal 23:12, 23 May 2007 (CDT)

I more or less remember the discussion over there regarding the Bisexual article (which was eventually deleted for claims of family friendliness), and I think it was RobS who argued vehemently that bisexuality does not exist in the first place. I think Ed backed him up, but I'm not terribly sure, although it seems to be a prevailing opinion that it's just homosexuality with another name. Should start a stub of a bisexuality article over the next day or two, so we can get a little info in there, since it seems to apply to this article. --Kels 05:20, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

I think you are in error. RobS never participated in any discussion on bisexuality, nor edited the CP Bisexual entry. RobS 10:40, 25 May 2007 (CDT)

Doesn't surprise me. I can't find the history on that whole thing, so I'm probably thinking of someone else. Still, you've put a lot of funky stuff in the homosexuality-related articles, which is hilarious enough. --Kels 10:42, 25 May 2007 (CDT)

RobS, would you mind un-deleting cp:Bisexuality and cp:Talk:Bisexuality long enough for one of us to get a copy of their history? That would help prevent this kind of accidental mis-attribution. Thanks! --jtl^talk 17:53, 25 May 2007 (CDT)

Done. --Kels 06:52, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Hey, Diabhal, thanks for the comments. Why don't you see if you can squeeze in an explication paragraph about Seligman's research. In the 1960's, psychoanalysis was basically state of the art, as psychopharmacology and EBM were not really there yet, and much of the analytic literature was erudite and useful (IMHO).--PalMD^-Talk 06:30, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Done. I don't disagree about the analytical literature in general from that era, but from what I can see of Socarides' work (my univ library doesn't give more than abstract access for much of it), his bottom line was that homosexuality was the result of pre-oedipal conflict, a domineering mother, and a weak and distant father. Diabhal 14:39, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

References

Does anyone have references for the follow-up studies that suggested that aversion therapy mainly affected bisexuals? I could use it for the bisexuality article, and they wouldn't be out of place here either. Also, is there a "fact" tag I could put on my stuff, where I need some help coming up with references? --Kels 07:02, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Side-by-Side

I think this article needs Human's loving touch. If it became part article, part side-by-side refutation of the quote blocks, I think it'd be great.-AmesG 07:57, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

I don't know about "loving touch", but I vandalized the hell out of it a few hours ago. human^{be in} 20:59, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Well Done

Thanks, Diabhal. DocSock 14:37, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Any references?

Any information about NARTH trying to turn a straight man into a gay man? While this might sound ludicrous, to some men this would be an absolute boon! (I'm going to go ahead and guess the answer is "no" but one never knows.) Cracker 14:46, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

I thinks you're grasping at straws, lederhosen-boy. I'd love to see the data though.--PalMD^-Talk 20:53, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

APA

I know you probably have seen the discussion over there already, but I dunno if characterizing the APA description as a "quote mine" really does it justice. The discussion really is mind-boggling in how they do everything in their power to minimize and sweep the content of the report under the rug, and only the efforts of a couple of people kept it in there in the first place. --Kels 20:47, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Notes

The reference note at the end of section 3 doesn't seem to be working for me. I'd love to be able to add the same reference to the bisexuality article, if I can. --Kels 10:45, 25 May 2007 (CDT)

Youre right, it's not, and I'm not sure what the cite is...I'll try and work on it.--PalMD^-Talk 11:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)

Cool, thanks! --Kels 11:02, 25 May 2007 (CDT)

On a related note...

Just to be clear, just making a point here. Can't just turn off "gayness", anymore than you can turn off, say, epicanthic folds or kinky hair.--PalMD^{-yada yada} 07:17, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

I would assume that everyone would get the joke. then again, maybe some cpers might read this.... ^ɢяаѕs_yodel^{βЯæкΔωwΝ} 07:20, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

Okay, okay. But you can't turn off desire for crack, either, right? Even so, treatment programs exist. Why did I get drawn into this conversation? Sorry to the gayness crowd. Heart♥Gold ^tx 07:23, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

Is that a real billboard? How did they get away with that? Heart♥Gold ^tx 07:24, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

I'm guessing some kind of plastic surgery :) olliegrind 07:49, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

It's a photoshopped parody of a real sign that said "gay" instead of "Asian". ^{— Unsigned, by: Nik / talk / contribs}