Information icon.svg

Campaigning for the RationalMedia Foundation 2021 board of trustees election is underway!

Forum:The problem with Conservatives.

From RationalWiki
Jump to: navigation, search
Just as a background so me being slightly biased may seem logical (being biased is something we all do so I don't want to hear about it). I am a Liberal Atheist who agrees with some (But not all) ideas involved with socialism, so my arguments may be somewhat strong. I could slowly waltz into this topic but honestly just thinking about it gets me fired up so lets gets started.

Conservatives are greedy 'christians.' We can all agree that is a strong statement, but any logical argument would have a solid basis. So here is one of the sources I found backing up the whole christian argument. I am not saying that all conservatives are christian. I know my fair share of atheist conservatives. Now to the greedy part. As displayed in the government conservatives are very anti-tax and very anti socialist (Obama care is a good example, I should really just cut to the chase). I don't like giving my money up just in general, but is every penny so sacred that not even the government who controls you can have it. Are you so damn greedy that you can't cough up some extra dough just so we can have nice roads and nice schools. Maybe even college would be affordable (even then I doubt it). So what, how does that have to do with christianity you must be asking (if not too bad)? Hmm, lets look through to bible (the conservative handbook of life) to prove how christian they really are. Timothy 6:10 "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs." Okay, how is that relevant? The bible is saying they are evil and faithless (this may be interpreted differently as I only attended church when I was 7-10 against my will). And me calling them greedy, with solid base, then the bible calling greedy people evil and faithless. Some of you may have read that differently though. So of corse I MUST pull more stuff from the 'holy' book. Proverbs 11:24 "One gives freely, yet grows all the richer another withholds what he should give, and only suffers want." So you must be saying this isn't much proof. Well as far as I can tell it is saying those who give become richer in spirit, become richer in soul. And those who keep money only suffer from desire. So, how is this proving they are false Christians? Well being richer in soul and spirit would make you more appealing to the lord I would assume. And the conservatives who can't even cough up a penny to pay for health care, to pay for roads, to pay for education, would be unappealing to the lord. So they could be referred to as being just as 'bad' as gays (the reason bad is in quotes is because I support gay marriage and have nothing against gays. In fact one of my closest friends is gay). So trying to make Gays suffer and trying to get them in hell is anti-climatic because you would have to burn with them. Am I wrong about any of this? I mean, I am an atheist but knowing about religion is still essential because of how many people live up to it. Because being atheist and ignorant is completely different (maybe I am still ignorant, after all I only pulled quotes (or proverbs, which ever works) from a copy of the bible on the internet).

Keep in mind this is kinda thrown together. So I will edit this a lot. And I may be wrong about bible meanings. I will gladly provide sources as needed and try to keep as open minded as possible. And lets try to keep this debate civilized. Because screaming die and hell and cussing me out, is not a valid argument that will disprove any of my points (But seriously, not looking for an all out flamewar so lets keep this shit logical and civilized).

F u s e (talk) 13:47, 3 December 2014 (UTC)F_u_s_e

The problem with this theory is that it is a broad-based generalization, and "the problem" with conservatives varies a great deal, from person to person. When you start imagining there's just one problem with a large group of people, you can quickly find yourself on the path of imagining that problem is incurable, then you're viewing people as subhuman, then well... you arrive at some of history's worst conclusions.
The best I can say is that some of what you've said is definitely true about some people. Ikanreed (talk) 14:31, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
I would say this is very true of what has become the mainstream conservative ideals, and the representatives stances, in the US. There are certainly conservatives that disagree with these ideals. However, people that disagree are often either ignored (at best) or cast out and publically denounced as heretics (i.e. Liberals). The representation is steadily getting pushed farther and farther to the right while voters are given the choice of being a good honest conservative or evil liberal. One word or action out of place and those people are ostricized (even former presidential candidates like Romney and McCain).
It's even getting to the point where a number of posters have pointed out they don't want to be associated with the conservatives any longer in name (since it's become so extreme)...while still voting for the GOP across the board, spouting right wing talking points, and supporting them. Along the lines of what happened to the John Birch Society as it went crazy.
I was at one point thinking my values aligned with more broad values of conservatism. In practice, and as they have been realized by the GOP, those values have been pissed all over. It's gotten so far to the extreme even Reagan would be a dirty liberal. EmeraldCityWanderer (talk) 19:43, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

I am a conservative, and am a Christian, and do not support Gay people (But, I still am friends with them :P) Christians pay taxes just like everyone else in the world. Jesus says give to Ceasers what is Ceasers, and give to God what is God's. I don't understand why I am greedy, what you said doesn't make sense. Just because we give more money to GOD then to OBAMA does not mean we LOVE money in any WAY. That verse in proverbs wasn't talking about the government, but withholding money to people that, you know, actually DESERVE and NEED money. Not people milking cash from welfare. — Unsigned, by: Pits Brazil / talk / contribs