Talk:Abraham Lincoln

	This United States politics related article has been awarded BRONZE status for quality. It's getting there, but could be better with improvement. See RationalWiki:Article rating for more information.

Don't touch this

Please don't touch this for the moment, I'm in the middle of writing a semi-respectable article. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 01:56, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

You're an ass, you know that? Move to "fun" without discussion, and I see no "article" even started yet. ħuman 02:05, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

I put it back. Edit this like any other article - massive changes should be discussed, additions are usually welcome, etc. Moving to another namespace because you are going to bestow your brilliance upon us at some random time in the future? Not user-friendly, really. ħuman 02:08, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

I need to ask before changing an article from an indefensible turd into something informative? Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 02:52, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

Some things just need to be done, Human. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 02:52, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

Stop. Fighting. Pink_{(Astronomy Domine)} 02:56, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

I will, as soon as Human learns when to focus on process and when to focus on getting things done. He seems unable to recognize the latter. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 03:04, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

You are really bad at peacemaking, RA :P Pink_{(Astronomy Domine)} 03:11, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

Since my admittance, I have spent the almost all of my forays in the forum apologizing and ass-covering. I am *tired* of it. I will not back down this time—not when I am (for a change) in the right. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 03:20, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

Anyone can join the forums, ass-head. No penance is required, and certainly no "apologizing and ass-covering". I suspect you may have been someplace else on teh innertubes. ħuman 01:37, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

RA, you weren't "getting anything done". You just unilaterally moved the existing content to another namespace. Feel free to improve the article, but wiping out other people's work with no discussion is not very friendly. Also, describing the previous work as "an indefensible turd" is offensive, whether true or not, and you haven't offered anything "informative" in it's place - or, better yet, in addition to it. ħuman 03:25, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

And whether or not you were "right", you made a jackass out of yourself by not working with others, but instead, running roughshod over them, insulting them, and acting like you are the only one who can do anything right. Which will only cause more resistance to your future efforts to remake the site in your image. ħuman 03:27, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

Calm down! Both of you! Christ Almighty -- you can squabble over which one of you gets to dominate RationalWiki any time! Pink_{(Astronomy Domine)} 03:35, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

Ah, I see. When you said "them", you meant you. Getting a wee bit overprotective of your pets, Human? Well, no matter, a turd is a turd, regardless of whether the dominant editor on the wiki happens to like the smell. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 03:47, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

I guess it's mating season, then... Pink_{(Astronomy Domine)} 03:57, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

Indeed. I find it particularly ironic that this argument is happening because of an article about Abe Lincoln. --AKjeldsen^{Cum dissensie} 04:22, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

Me too. ħuman 01:38, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

Doris Kearns Godwin

Not trying to be the hater, but Doris is a known plagiarist, she's been called on it for a few books now, including the one on FDR where she had to pay out her ass. I went to Lincoln's Tomb, it's far nicer than Lenin's Tomb by far, Springfield in April is much nicer than Moscow, there are real Lincoln biographies to really read.Andrewstewart1 (talk) 04:19, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Basically...

As it stands, the article could be edited down to "Lincoln was great and maybe he violated rights but that's okay because the civil war. And almost everyone who criticizes him hates black people, loves slavery, and wanted the south to win the civil war". Nothing like a serious article where you call a guy awesome half a dozen times. I also love the basic ego gratification of "Lincoln would agree with us on everything!" I would think liberals might make mention of the fact that he was a corporate lawyer and the cultivated image of the humble rail splitter was tenuous at best. Lincoln detested manual labor and thought it beneath him. So, yeah. A guy who really identified with the plight of the slave. Also one of the reasons he looked down upon his illiterate father and refused to see the guy on his deathbed. What a class act. Just skip this one and read Doris Kearns Godwin. Sure, it's plagiarized Lincoln idolatry, but at least she can fucking write. Burkean (talk) 06:53, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I've been researching the relationship between Lincoln and Frederick Douglass for over a year now, and the consensus of those who knew Lincoln personally - including Douglass - was that he was an awesome guy. But sure, he wasn't a saint. But don't worry, he got his punishment, for any sins committed in his life, by being married to Mary Todd, who was called, among other things "the hell-cat" and "her Satanic Majesty" by Lincoln's two assistants, Hay and Nicolay. Read anything by Michael Burlingame (historian) (who is also a stickler about plagiarism) if you want to know more. Most important, unlike most POTUS, Lincoln was a great writer, which will always endear him to intellectuals which means you will never see an end to Lincoln hagiographies. Sorry to break it to you. Pinkerite (talk) 03:02, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

You also have to consider his active enabling of settler colonialism in the American West if you wanna have an honest discussion of the man's record. I can't imagine indigenous folk really care all that much for Lincoln, but they probably don't really care that much for any American president either, for obvious reasons. Carthage (talk) 03:12, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

This article really does have the typical American revisionist vibe. The clumsy grasping-at-straws explanation of Lincoln's infamous "send them back to Africa" quote isn't great. In one sentence, Lincoln is widely known for having abolitionist sentiments and is despised by half the country for it, the next sentence he's suddenly a secret genius double-agent playing both sides and tricking everyone by pretending to be a racist. Looking back at this from a modern and more sober perspective, it is likely that all this moral grandstanding by the Republican party with regards to slavery was little more than political theater and appeal to emotion. This sort of melodramatic way of expressing oneself was standard practice in 19th century politics and I think it's safe to say that the real reasons for Republican opposition to slavery had more to do with economic stability and the balance of power between Northern and Southern states than any genuine concern for a group of people who were unanimously regarded as subhuman and inferior by all of Western European society, even the most enlightened academics of the era. It's hard for people in the modern era, especially those with a more sheltered mindset, to comprehend that these outmoded ideas about race, which are now considered abhorrent and unthinkable by any reasonable person, were not even called into question in 19th century discourse, they were undisputed scientific fact. TL;DR: Abraham Lincoln was vehement racist, just like everyone else was back then. --Bjorn (talk) 03:17, 20 October 2024 (UTC)