Talk:Christopher Columbus

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category

While "explorers" might be ok, how about "three day weekends" or "US holidays", or "italian-hispanic riots"? How about "imperialists"? "mass murderers"? "enslavers"... "gold diggers"... ok, I'll stop now... human 00:20, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

The article is slightly wide of the mark by referring to "Icelandic pagans with bad body odour". In fact Leif Erikson was a Christian, he converted during an earlier visit to Norway, although his father Erik the Red was a heathen. PatGallacher (talk) 21:42, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

I think that might be an odd reference to the fact that some of the Religious Right have issues with accepting America's "discovery" prior to Columbus. ^{d hominem} 23:54, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Misblamed?

I don't understand is their any evidence that Colombus was directly involved in genocide? As far as I know he was just an explorer, the actual genocide being done by the Spanish empire and his brother Bartholomew (he left his brother in charge while he explored). As far as I can find the worse thing he did was want to convert the natives to Christianity but in comparison to other colonizers that was pretty mild (yes I know that doesn't make it ok), and he was already dead when the genocide of the natives by Spain really kicked off. He personallly was peaceful towards the natives of the Bahamas, though he should not have trusted his brother to be in charge but that seems more because of incompetance on his part than maliciousness. ClothCoat (talk) 00:14, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

He was certainly considered to be a brutal governor of the early colonies, and Spain tried to have him imprisoned for it.-- Forerunner (talk) 23:19, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

does he get blamed for way to much (I've seen numerous times people essentially blaming all of the European caused american-ills on him) sometimes? Yes. Is he a blameless saint who did no wrong? In no such way. There's a reason the focus on him is the finding the americas part and nothing afterwards. --"Paravant" ^{Talk & Contribs} 23:56, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

I just read some of journal and it's clear that he was involved in the genocide. If anything we aren't harsh enough on him. I don't know where I heard that it was mainly his brothers who were responsible but I was clearly wrong (though his brothers were involved as well). ClothCoat (talk) 18:25, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Lies told to children

While we're at it, why is this section advocating other lies? He was searching for a route to the 'Indies' not 'India'. His fantastical beliefs aside (ie denying all evidence that he had in fact, not reached the Asian coast), continuing this meme is as bad as the flat earth one. The implication being that knowledge at the time indicated that India was the most East landmass known and that their attempts was even more mistaken than it was.

Further, the most common held view for centuries prior was that the east coast line was in the middle of the pacific ocean approximately where the prime meridian is. While this trip would have likely been impossible, the view which led to the voyage was that this was an underestimation.

The only good continuing false notions is to feel superior to those in the past for being ignornant and/or stupid, where we are so much more enlightened and wise than those backwards people. ^{— Unsigned, by: 69.246.204.50 / talk / contribs 23:36, 11 October 2015‎ (UTC)}

Statues

Should we add how Columbus’s statues are being destroyed across the America’s? I think we should at least mention it in a section about his legacy. Rational Dude (talk) 16:43, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

If you can provide a citation? Carthage (talk) 16:48, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Statues have been taken down... but destroyed? I live in Columbus, Ohio and the one that was in front of city hall was placed into storage to be eventually displayed elsewhere. Another at the local community college was was taken down and put into storage (personally, I always thought it was ugly). I'm sure this has happened elsewhere, but nothing like the cheap confederate monuments that were removed and melted down. --Paul S (talk) 03:33, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

I thought they would've been destroyed by now, no one needs columbus statues. I did find one source, but i'm not sure if this counts:https://globalnews.ca/news/7048340/christopher-columbus-statues-destroyed/ Rational Dude (talk) 20:27, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

The complication with Christopher Columbus (kind of noted in the article, despite its mediocre state) is how some Italian-Americans have embraced him as a symbol of their immigration and heritage. Historically there's some merit to that -- e.g. the first Columbus day in 1892 was held in part a response to violence against Italian American immigrants going on at the time, most notably the 1891 New Orleans lynchings. Historically anti-immigrant groups (such as the KKK) also hated Christopher Columbus and the statues because oh noes Catholics or something.

These interesting "wrinkles" to this story continues to this day. There's one story where a Columbus status was quietly relocated to a heavily Italian-American town called Johnston, after it had been vandalized and taken down in nearby Providence Rhode Island. Obviously this re-location wasn't without controversy... [1]

Obviously this changes little of who Columbus really was (so tyrannical and incompetent even by 15th century standards that Spain gave him the boot from his governorship), as well as his emergence as a grievance symbol for the multitude of sins of colonialism. But it does complicate the narrative. Most stories I Google do seem to indicate that the statues are often taken to storage instead of being destroyed; perhaps this is in part why. BobJohnson (talk) 21:16, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Alright then, thanks for the further information. I wasn't trying to imply that Columbus should have statues, there’s a lot of reasons why we shouldn’t celebrate him. Rational Dude (talk) 23:33, 5 March 2024 (UTC)