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Talk:Ghost

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Topic[edit]

Um...I hate to be the one who points this out...but isn't that "when you die, you're gone" an opinion? I dunno if that belongs there. I agree there's no credible proof of ghosts, but that's not the same as having disproven any sort of consciousness surviving death. I guess that falls under a modification of the quote about "if you've made this important discovery, why haven't you shared it with the world", eh? --Kels 23:51, 21 July 2007 (CDT)

Yup, I guess.. mine? Let's say it is a theory, that "ghosts" are strong figments of the bereaved's imagination. I have seen, out of the corner of my eye, several cats I shared my life with, long after they were gone. Ghosts? No, just them living on in my heart. My opinion. Please, feel free to make the article better! I just stubbed it, as I am wont to do sometimes. And, don't hate to be the one who says "make this better"! PS, nice having you back here a bit more! humanbe in 23:58, 21 July 2007 (CDT)
Well, not tonight, but if I remember I might see if I can't do something tomorrow. I don't disagree that it's quite possible ghosts don't exist. However, there's no conclusive proof that they don't, so you can't conclusively say it. You can just say they probably don't, and point out that nobody's offered anything concrete for evidence. And yeah, it's good to be back. I've got a number of irons in the fire, but this place is always on one of my Firefox tabs. --Kels 00:03, 22 July 2007 (CDT)
Wow, there's also no "conclusiove proof" that Jesus was no God incarnate, either. Probably, actually to every possible probability, they don't "exist". But! The phenomenon does deserve exploration. Hence my theories. And, I wait with bated breath this article getting better! humanbe in 00:12, 22 July 2007 (CDT)
I think it's pretty obvious that ghosts don't exist, because the festering corpse of George Orwell hasn't yet torn itself from his unquiet grave to stalk Karl Rove and rip his heart out. --Gulik 00:29, 22 July 2007 (CDT)
Well, there's proof positive, eh? humanbe in 00:41, 22 July 2007 (CDT)
Good enough for me. --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 01:23, 22 July 2007 (CDT)
I note there is no conclusive proof that there are no fairies at the bottom of my garden - but I'm a fairy agnostic. Why? Well, proving conclusively that anything doesn't exist is a tall order. The Flying Spaghetti Monster for example. So is it a question of probabilities. The probability is so low that for all intents and purposes we can say ghosts, fairies and Flying Spaghetti Monsters don't exist - though in reality our attitude should be one of extreme agnosticism.--Bob_M (talk) 07:16, 22 July 2007 (CDT)

Why do people believe in ghosts?

What are the explanations for ghosts? (Misinterpretation, brainwarp attacks/hallucinations, fraud etc - and 'presently unexplained phenomena.' — Unsigned, by: 212.85.6.26 / talk / contribs 16:56, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Ghost can exist. but we have no proof of them existing or proof of them not existing. i may be agnostic but im sure there something after death. but that my humble opinion.Waronstupidity (talk) 17:00, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Hypothetical Dialogue[edit]

In the science section I added what I feel is an unbeatable argument (but most likely that's just my own hubris, god knows I have it in spades) against the existence of ghosts. If there are logical or scientific inconsistencies, do edit or delete if necessary. --Brendiggg (talk) 18:22, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

You do know that there are things in the universe that do not behave according to Newton's physics, right? Newtonian physics breaks down on the very small and very massive scale. Science continues to attempt to understand the wonders of the universe, but it makes no headway from pigheadedness. — Unsigned, by: 66.30.245.28 / talk 01:30, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Poor state[edit]

this article is in a terrible state. I suggest someone improve on it and let me take credit. AceX-102 09:22, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Sleep paralysis[edit]

I'm wondering if sleep paralysis should have its own article. It's implicated in ghosts, UFO's and other stuff.--BobSpring is sprung! 13:12, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I second that motion. --PsyGremlinHable! 13:38, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
I'm fascinated by the subject but all I could really do is lift paragraphs from WP. I might make a stubby start and let others cleverer than myself continue. Jack Hughes (talk) 14:03, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
That's an ok way to start. I turd the idea. Hence my linking the OP. ħumanUser talk:Human 02:51, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Well damn, glad I didn't say "redlinking"! ħumanUser talk:Human 02:52, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

If ghosts actually existed[edit]

... there would be phantom trilobytes and phantom dinosaurs.

Or do ghosts involve the presence of sentient creatures to establish them? 82.198.250.2 (talk) 18:27, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Ghost pets have been reported, so evidently not. Though the lack of phantom dinosaurs suggests that spirits must have a finite shelf life. Scarlet A.pngmoralModerator 22:46, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
The one constant in ghost stories is that the ghost is usually interesting or has emotional value (fear, sadness, even just curiosity, protectiveness) to living humans. People don't see boring ghosts; that's why there's a ghost story associated with them. Ghosts it seems, need a human to believe in them. making them symbiotic beings at best, imaginary brain parasites at worst. Assuming they are actual things, which they most certainly are not.±Knightoftldrsig.pngKnightOfTL;DRlavishly loquacious 23:41, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Another argument for finite lifespans - no ghostly entities around Stonehenge, despite the number of persons of a willing disposition, nor Medes and Persians etc.

Some 'ghosts' will be explained by natural phenomena (geological emissions - variant on Delphic Oracle), infrasound, 'certain mushrooms, plant chemicals and similar'); others will be due to optical illusions (Madonna in the trees, shadows and candles etc); and 'something significant happened here.'

However there seem to be 'a number of events' which cannot be explained away - and the feeling that 'there is more to heaven and earth than merely in scientific philosophy.' 212.85.6.26 (talk) 18:34, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

In the relevant literature it is often said that ghosts seem not to last forever; I've read of a particular ghost that was originally reported in some detail, but later reports of it described a more and more vague figure, then a mist, then just a feeling, and that was the end of it, the whole thing taking (IIRC) a few decades or perhaps a century or two. So ghosts don't last forever - and a good thing too, otherwise the buggers would be everywhere. SophieWilder 18:40, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
To develop the Venerable Bede's phrase (eg here [1]) some light spills out of the hall and the sparrow can still be seen.
So would dinosaurs/trilobites see dinosaur/trilobite ghosts? (Analogous to the Roman writer's statement that donkeys would probably have gods that looked like donkeys.)
One can be 'reasonably rational' and also be of the opinion that 'some things that occur are weird and inexplicable.' 212.85.6.26 (talk) 19:16, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
It's important to remember that our minds are biologically programed to "sense" "being" where there is none. It's a survival mechanism. You hear leaves rustle, and your very first thought is, "WHAT is that", as in rabbit, other human, etc. - rather than "oh, the wind". You see a flash of light, and your mind thinks "alien, ghost, or spooky thing" rather than, "oh an odd reflection from the water onto the tree". Green mowse.pngGodot She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans 17:51, 29 December 2012 (UTC) (edit) Even, by teh way, when you fully know better. Green mowse.pngGodot She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans 17:51, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

New Ghost theory[edit]

An interesting read, see here and here. I think this should be added to the article. Forests (talk) 14:02, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Is this information from wikipedia valid for this page, if reiterated?[edit]

===Zoinks, infrasound!=== Psychologist Richard Wiseman of the University of Hertfordshire thinks that the odd sensations that people attribute to ghosts can be caused by infrasonic vibrations. In 1998, Vic Tandy, experimental officer and part-time lecturer in the school of international studies and law at [[Coventry University]], and Dr. Tony Lawrence of the psychology department wrote a paper called "Ghosts in the Machine" for the ''Journal of the [[Society for Psychical Research]]''. Their research suggested that an infrasonic signal of 19 Hz might be responsible for some ghost sightings. Tandy was working late one night alone in a supposedly haunted laboratory at Warwick, when he felt very anxious and could detect a grey blob out of the corner of his eye. When Tandy turned to face the grey blob, there was nothing. The following day, Tandy was working on his fencing foil, with the handle held in a vice. Although there was nothing touching it, the blade started to vibrate wildly. Further investigation led Tandy to discover that the extractor fan in the lab was emitting a frequency of 18.98 Hz, very close to the resonant frequency of the eye given as 18 Hz by NASA.<ref>[http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA030476&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf NASA Technical Report 19770013810]</ref> This was why Tandy had seen a ghostly figure—it was an optical illusion caused by his eyeballs resonating. The room was exactly half a wavelength in length, and the desk was in the center, thus causing a standing wave which caused the vibration of the foil.<ref>[http://skepdic.com/infrasound.html infrasound<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref> Tandy investigated this phenomenon further and wrote a paper entitled ''The Ghost in the Machine''.<ref>{{Cite journal | last1 = Tandy | first1 = V. | last2 = Lawrence | first2 = T. | title = The ghost in the machine. | journal = [[Journal of the Society for Psychical Research]] | volume = 62 | issue = 851 | pages = 360–364 |date=April 1998 | url = http://www.hauntmastersclub.com/files/ghost-in-machine.pdf }}</ref> Tandy carried out a number of investigations at various sites believed to be haunted, including the basement of the Tourist Information Bureau next to Coventry Cathedral. <ref>{{Cite journal | last1 = Tandy | first1 = V. | title = Something in the cellar. | journal = Journal of the Society for Psychical Research | volume = 64.3 | issue = 860 |date=July 2000 | url = http://www.psy.herts.ac.uk/ghost/Something-in-the-Cellar.pdf | archiveurl = http://web.archive.org/web/20110929142806/http://www.psy.herts.ac.uk/ghost/Something-in-the-Cellar.pdf |archivedate = 2011-09-29}}</ref><ref>{{cite news| url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2000/jul/11/highereducation.chrisarnot |work=The Guardian | location=London | title=Ghost buster | first=Chris | last=Arnot | date=11 July 2000 | accessdate=5 May 2010}}</ref> and [[Edinburgh Castle]].<ref>[http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/page.cfm?objectid=12722447&method=full&siteid=50003 Who ya gonna call? Vic Tandy! – Coventry Telegraph<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref><ref>[http://web.archive.org/web/20070119004339/http://www.ghostexperiment.co.uk/theories-infra.html Internet Archive Wayback Machine. 2007 version of Vic Tandy's Ghost Experiment webpage]</ref> <ref> {{wpa|Infrasound}} </ref> ===Jinkies, projectors!=== Projectors have also been used to give the impression of ghosts, such as the 17th century magic lantern (said to have been invented by Roger Bacon), which were particularly effective when combined with drugged perfumes and a priests authority. <ref>{{cite web|url=https://archive.org/details/livesnecromance04godwgoog|title=Lives of the Necromancers|author=William Godwin|year=1876|pages=221-225}}</ref>. In the 1660s, a man named Thomas Walgensten used his so-called "lantern of fear" to summon ghosts. Such uses of this early machine were not uncommon. In fact, a common setup of the machine was to keep parts of the projector in a separate, adjoining room with only the aperture visible, to make it seem more magical and scare people. By the 18th century, use by charlatans was common for religious reasons. For example, Count Alessandro Cagliostro used it to "raise dead spirits" in Egyptian masonry. Johann Georg Schröpfer of Leipzig used the magic lantern to conjure up images of spirits on smoke. Schröpfer later went insane, thinking he was pursued by real devils, and shot himself after promising an audience he would later resurrect himself.<ref> Eds. Crangle, Richard, Heard, Mervyn, and van Dooren, Ine. "Devices and Desires". Realms of Light. London, England: The Magic Lantern Society, 2005. 11-45. Print. </ref> <ref> {{wpa|Magic lantern}} </ref> — Unsigned, by: Exiled Encyclopedist / talk / contribs 20:14, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Seems relevant, but if it's a direct copy-paste from WP, it needs to be overhauled so that it no longer is. WeaseloidWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 20:54, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
Cool, I'll work on that and stick to using the talk pages for testing copy pasta from now on. Exiled Encyclopedist (talk) 15:47, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

4th Dimension????!!!!!!'[edit]

Why would that be a logical explanation as to why ?????!!!!! Jakester499 (talk) --Does anyone else think Chris Christie is the lawyer from Stephen King's Thinner 16:59, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Read the Sagan quote, a 4th dimensional creature would look to us like we would look to a second dimensional creature.'Legionwhat do you want from me 23:03, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Two explanations that don't help the case against ghosts[edit]

I've removed these two explanations because, let's be blunt, they're crap: "In particular, Lewy Body dementia,[1] in addition to being characterized by the presence of Lewy bodies in a sufferer's brain, is also characterized by hallucinations of people and animals usually manifesting from the sufferer's memory.

A certain hallucinogenic has been reported to induce visions of ghosts. The Humr people of Sudan consume the drink umm nyolokh, which is created from the liver and marrow of giraffes. Umm nyolokh often contains DMT and other psychoactive substances from plants the giraffes eat such as acacia, and is known to cause hallucinations of giraffes, believed to be the giraffes' ghosts by the Humr.[2][3]"

  1. Lewy Body dementiaWikipedia's W.svg in that other wiki
  2. Ian Cunnison (1958). "Giraffe hunting among the Humr tribe". Sudan Notes and Records 39. 
  3. http://www.cracked.com/article/81_6-animals-that-can-get-you-high/

Sorry, but these two are a bit obscure as explanations of ghost sightings. The first is a rare medical condition suffered mainly by older people, and it's too much to expect that everyone reporting ghosts has this or a similar illness. Yes it causes hallucinations, but it causes many other symptoms as well. Picking out the one useful symptom and going "aha!" looks too much like cherry picking. The other one, that people imagine ghosts because they eat giraffe livers, is plainly ludicrous. Choose a better example, because choosing these outliers makes it look like you're clutching at straws. BicyclewheelToxic mowse.gif 08:57, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

The Stone Tape[edit]

Some mention of this program should be made (and cross posted to [2]. Anna Livia (talk) 16:36, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Ghosts and religion[edit]

Is it worth mentioning that, despite so many believers in ghosts being followers of the Abrahamic religion, those religions all explicitly tell you that ghosts do not exist, it's a sin to believe they do, it's also a sin to try to communicate with the dead in any form, and it's especially a sin to give money to people like the Witch of Endor or John Edward?

I mean, it's hardly the only inconsistent thing that ghost-botherers or god-botherers believe, and two fantasies contradicting each other isn't as interesting as each one contradicting both itself and reality, and so on. But, on the other hand, it seems significant anyway. --157.131.152.164 (talk) 06:37, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Definitely worth a mention, go ahead and add it. БaбyЛuigiOнФire(T|C) 06:38, 13 February 2018 (UTC)