Talk:Manosphere glossary

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Random stupid grammar shit[edit]

Just moved some commas and periods into their correct places within quotations. Stupid minor edits. — Unsigned, by: 152.208.63.217 / talk / contribs

The antithesis of the Manosphere[edit]

John Lennon's [1]. Anna Livia (talk) 23:08, 3 June 2018 (UTC)


Manospeak unbound![edit]

I see the Manosphere has developed a very refined lexicon since I last perused these pages. Black pills, 50 Shades of Cels, a dozen or so "isms" and on and on it goes. Manospherism is developing into quite the growth oriented ideology. Still, I can't imagine the mindset of a dude who immerses himself in this stuff, seeking it out and following blogs dedicated to Manosphere subcultures and essentially making it part of his identity. I have never actually met a dedicated Manosphere person in the real world. Maybe because the whole thing is permeated with an utterly depressing bleakness and steeped in silent male shame, misogynistic vindictiveness and outward directed self-hatred. At least the "PUA" stuff before it had a name and transformed itself into a woman-hating cult in the mid-2000s or so offered some practical advice for shy or socially awkward young men that didn't require buying into a toxic ideology. There are kernels of truth in some of the original PUA talking points that any aware man who has spent time with women recognizes. And even the most "incelled" recluse probably knows what '50 Shades of Grey' is about and that it was a huge hit with women. It is not a secret that it has spawned a cottage industry of porny romance novels that feature sexually dominant men sexually dominating sexually submissive females. The problem is we don't as a society know how to talk about sex or even what to make of it. At its core sex is not nice, it is not fair and it is not egalitarian. As Esther Perel said "Sexual desire and good citizenship don't play by the same rules." A society that is sex phobic and associates sex with secrecy and shame, but is at the same time saturated with pornography and sexual imagery innuendo is bound to be, well, fucked up when it comes to sexual relationships. Why I did I write this here? Because this isn't Wikipedia that's why. Just kidding. Sort of. SpookMaster (talk) 06:26, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

are we just making this bollocks up?[edit]

or are we just being trolled? AMassiveGay (talk) 22:12, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Incel[edit]

I think it should be emphasized that incels were originally an online support group for involuntary celibate people, male or female, and was not founded as a misogynistic MRA movement (although I imagine they were present even in the early days). I mean being incel is not a pleasant place to be for anyone, I don't like the idea that non-misogynistic people who identify as such who have already suffered bullying and shaming be lumped in with the creeps and assholes.31.205.244.201 (talk) 15:26, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

Done, see incel Neiltyson1fan (talk) 23:56, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

You write "I don't like the idea that non-misogynistic people who identify as such who have already suffered bullying and shaming be lumped in with the creeps and assholes." Hmmm...why do people have to "identify" with everything these days. I've been diagnosed with BPD and ADHD but does that mean I have to make these things part of my core identity? The media and entertainment industry often portrays people with mental illness as deranged murderers but I am not a deranged murderer so I don't get too deeply offended by it. On bad days when the world seems bleak and hopeless it is the way these conditions interfere with my life and well-being that bothers me most, not the prejudices or misconceptions of "society" or people I don't know. Should I get deeply upset when someone casually uses the words "crazy" or "insane" and lecture them pitifully about how those words offend my identity? Why would I even want to identify with the conditions that make my life difficult? That seems rather masochistic and a great way to make an undesirable situation even worse.

To be clear, I am not saying people should put up with bullying, discrimination or bigotry. The world is full of assholes who delight in casual cruelty and bigotry of all kinds and nobody should put up with that shit. But it is worth cultivating a thicker skin and a resilient sense of self that doesn't take every slight or provocation deadly seriously. Bullies, bigots and assholes will always be with us and if you don't have a strategy for dealing with them that doesn't involve telling them how unfair and mean they are being (showing weakness only fuels their aggression), well, life will be very hard indeed. Choose your battles wisely.SpookMaster (talk) 12:09, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

The main article "incel" does a good idea of exploring these issues and explaining the complexities. It's important to differentiate between people who're unable to or find it especially difficult to form romantic relationships (who may require counselling, support, therapy, etc), people who can't have sex for biological/medical reasons, and people who've simply not had sex but want to (maybe they're in jail, or can't afford a prostitute, or can't find anyone they want to do it with, or are assholes, or are in the category of people unable to form romantic relationships). The right to voluntarily associate with other people is a human right, as is the vaguely-defined right to family life (which also must be voluntary and respect other human rights), but the right to have sex with other people isn't a basic right. Nobody should be bullied, but if someone feels they are entitled to sex they deserve to have it gently explained to them that they're entitled to have sex with themselves but not other people. --Annanoon (talk) 12:56, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Which idiot wrote the definition for divorce rape?[edit]

He or she wrote, "comparing losing a bit of money to an actual sexual assault is a fucking terrible thing to do." Any evidence that all or most men only lose "a bit" of money after divorce? Their incomes may increase after divorce, but that doesn't mean the amount of money they lose *during* divorce is little. Never mind that "a bit" is a subjective term.

Also, "divorce rape" not only refers to loss of money but also to loss of assets and time spent with one's offspring.

And finally, the study used (reference 41) only claimed that men in *childless* marriages have increased income after divorce.

EDITED. I hope most of my fellow "rational" minds aren't this stupid. Tyrone8934 (talk) 23:11, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

@Tyrone8934 As do I, giving that your post consists of you obsessing over wording rather than discussing the meat of the matter. Or, to put it another way, "divorce rape" is wrong in the same way that falling afoul of godwin's law is wrong, in that it marginalizes and trivializes actual suffering and at its "worst" (for the "victims") is an example of First world problems. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 23:16, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
@GrammarCommie You can't be this lacking in common sense. Perhaps you'd be better off working in one Stalin's gulags rather than be here at Rational Wiki. Words fucking matter because they describe real-world events. Furthermore, I daresay that most people would *not* take rape less seriously just because the word is used as slang. Tyrone8934 (talk) 23:35, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
@Tyrone8934 Hmm... Interesting point. I'm going to go rape my dinner now, and I'll rape you later. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 00:28, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Tyrone8934, stop insulting us. First warning. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 00:58, 29 December 2018 (UTC)