Template talk:Holydaze/4Thu11

Weasel, I used preview and it was working fine. What was failing? (PS, it was just a simple html table in order to center the text vertically) ħuman 20:19, 26 November 2008 (EST)

This is how it looked to me (on Internet Explorer, Windows Vista, widescreen laptop). weaseLOId~ 20:26, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Ah, ok. The problem must lie with that font, which since I don't have loaded (FF on XP), doesn't render for me. I'd say let's ditch the font. None of the formatting I did would chop off the top of the letters like that. Odd that the oranges don't match in your screenshot, isn't it? ħuman 20:38, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Not sure what you mean about the oranges. They look the same to me. & The font looks fine when it doesn't have the table round it. So I have to conclude that what you did does chop the top off the letters (at least on IE, Vista, etc.) What's the purpose of the table? The allignment of text & pictures as it is doesn't look too bad to me. weaseLOId~ 20:44, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Let me rephrase, the table can't chop the text like that. The table was to center the text vertically, it's just a minor aesthetic issue, but it looks better that way. Many of the older banners are set up that way with no trouble. Can you do me a quick favor, and pull up the diff on the tabled version, and edit it to remove the font name and preview it to see how it looks? How many colors is your laptop monitor running, by the way? The text in the screencap is definitely not the same orange, which is really strange. ħuman 20:52, 26 November 2008 (EST)

When I try your edit without the specific font, it is still cutting off the top of text over a certain height. I can't find exactly how many colours my laptop runs at, but it's standard settings for a modern laptop (only a few months old). The colour in the screenshot is probably a bit corrupted, since I screengrabbed it, pasted into MS Paint, saved it, cropped it in Windows Photo Viewer, saved again, & then uploaded it. weaseLOId~ 21:02, 26 November 2008 (EST)

My guess is that tables are based around having more-or-less normal sized text, whereas the text in this template is embiggened three times, which is enough to extend beyond the confines of the table. The cutting off only appears in Internet Explorer - I looked at it through Firefox & it looks fine - so maybe Firefox's own formatting compensates against it in some way. Anyway, for something so minor, which only appears once a year, it's probably better to leave it. Keep tinkering if you want, but try previewing it in IE as well as Firefox if you can. Cheers. weaseLOId~ 21:30, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Your "guess" is wrong - table cells swell to fit whatever is stuck in them. And the row itself has to be tall enough to hold the images in the left and right. I suggest that the flaw might be only on your box, but let's at least ask others. Seriously, I've been writing html tables for like a decade now without any such troubles. I reverted the template to the table version, but without the bizarre font name. ħuman 03:46, 27 November 2008 (EST)

In glorious Soviet Union are using CSS, not revisionist tables to center and stuff:

  Happy Thanksgiving!  

Is OK in Imperialist Internet Explorer? _and marmite 23:26, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Works for me, but I am communist XP/FF luser... !!!! ħuman 23:48, 26 November 2008 (EST)

PS, I am roasting and basting as we type... who knows why... ħuman 23:49, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Just out of curiosity:

Happy Thanksgiving!

Does that break for you? (Obviously, I don't to war over this, but I wonder...) ħuman 00:24, 27 November 2008 (EST)

It's still cutting off, but only the dots of the i.s because the font isn't as tall. weaseLOId~ 06:45, 27 November 2008 (EST)

And is mine any better (next-but-one above)? _and marmite 07:03, 27 November 2008 (EST)

That one isn't cutting off any text. In reply to Human's comment that "table cells swell to fit whatever is stuck in them", that doesn't appear to be true. I tried using huge text in a couple of other tables around te site, & the table cell height always stays the same, cutting off the top or bottom of the text. See [1] & [2]. So the combination of enlarged text with tables obviously isn't a good one & is only going to cause problems on Holydaze templates, most of which include only a line or so of large text, & don't need to be in a table. weaseLOId~ 07:19, 27 November 2008 (EST)

Pi has put Toast's version in & I've restored it to the original font. This looks fine on IE & Firefox. The other solution I worked out, if a table is required (& I don't know why it would be) is to put a <br> in before & after the "Happy Thanksgiving" - it makes the table bigger on the basis of there being three lines of text there, & so it doesn't cut off the lettering. weaseLOId~ 08:03, 27 November 2008 (EST)

If you haven't got that font on your machine it totally effs it up! _and marmite 08:11, 27 November 2008 (EST)

I don't think I've got Sans Serif on mine, so it still looks like Arial to me, but that's just fine anyway (better than Times, IMO). Now let's all put this behind us & get on with our lives. Happy Thanksgiving! weaseLOId~ 08:32, 27 November 2008 (EST)

Arial is a FONT, Sans-serif is a FONT FAMILY of which Arial is a member. I don't have Arial (Linux) so using it gave the default of Times. That other one you used also gave Times but the Kerning was out & it split into two lines. (try for some hints on fonts) _and marmite 08:40, 27 November 2008 (EST)

I tried to click on the "edit" tab on the screenshot above :( haha. And, yup, the issue is the "big" tags - for some reason they don't let the browser know to make the "line of text" taller (you've probably seen how rows of big text will overlap and stuff). One solution is to use the font tag itself (size = +2, say). Or div tags which I guess are more modern. Anyway, the version I see up there now works perfectly, the text is aligned vertically very nicely. Sorry to have mucked up some screens while I tried to make it work... ħuman 23:12, 27 November 2008 (EST)

No discussion on template change

I didn't see any discussion on this talk page about linking the Happy Thanksgiving template to Native American Genocide. Blue changed it with the edit comment: "(It remains unclear for what anyone is giving thanks.)" What the hell are you talking about Blue? Can't we just express a simple happy sentiment to people? Why must everything be so nasty and negative with you? This is just as mean-spirited as edits on another wiki that people constantly cite. But once again, whatever Blue unilaterally decides to do is done, demoting people, dictating when certain people can sysop others, reversing valid actions with no justification, etc. I'm interested in hearing thoughtful comments on this issue, but spare me the snarky comments from blue-groupies, thanks. Refugee^{talk page} 20:51, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Undo the edit, with the summary "I disagree, let's take it to the talk page." Then discuss it.--"Shut up, Brx." 20:54, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

And yet, Refugee has not actually said anything that isn't a pure ad hominem. If she would like to have this discussion she apparently thinks is necessary, she should put forward an actual argument. Blue (pester) 21:28, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

I oft remember how much Blue didn't like Human unilaterally changing or deleting templates. Aceⁱ⁹ 21:42, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

And I am not sure what thanksgiving has to do with slaughtering Native peoples expect maybe it was done by the same people? Aceⁱ⁹ 21:44, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Brx, a voice of reason today, must give credit where credit due. Thanks Ace, I also recall the huge fusses Blue habitually kicked up when Human made changes without discussion... yet here we are. The reason Blue gave for linking to a page about mass killing: "(It remains unclear for what anyone is giving thanks.)" If Blue is unclear on the reason for Thanksgiving, I suggest researching it. This is not a day set aside for giving thanks for killing people. Before a change is made, let's discuss here, thanks. Refugee^{talk page} 22:13, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

How about including the National Day of Mourning and Unthanksgiving day up there along with Thanksgiving? Hell, we could probably use articles on the two.--"Shut up, Brx." 22:51, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

why do that - as far as I am aware thanksgiving is do with the harvest and giving thanks. Why does it have to be tied to something negative? Aceⁱ⁹ 23:01, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Ace, I'm not familiar with how Thanksgiving is celebrated or perceived outside of the U.S. Here, at least, there's a huge mythology about the Pilgrims and a Native person called Squanto and how the Native tribes welcomed the settlers and Taught Them Their Ways^TM. Thanksgiving is a blatant retconning of the European colonial genocide of Native Americans to fit the American manifest destiny mythos.

I think a reasonable compromise may involve the writing of an article on the National Day of Atonement and creating another Holydaze template for that to be shown alongside the Thanksgiving one. Blue (pester) 00:20, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Good for you, sweets. Aceⁱ⁹ 00:30, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

What is this? "collapse|closer=Blue|reason=Premature" I didn't just spend 20 minutes of my time when I should be making pumpkin rolls for tomorrow, just to have you slam the door in my face before I can post what I wrote! What is this "closing conversations" anyway? Do we have a rule on this? Or if you just don't like the way a conversation is going, you can shut it down, Blue? I need to know. Regarding Thanksgiving: I don't know anything about Squanto, never heard of him. I do know that Sacajawea is the cute Indian chick with the baby that they put on the U.S. golden $1 coin some years back, which I thought was really cool... first golden dollar ever, and we honor a Native American - and a woman! The baby was so cute too. So anyway... I always viewed Thanksgiving Day as an homage to the Native Americans (aka "Indians") of North America, who, when faced with annoying English settlers overrunning their lands, disrespecting their culture and peoples, and bringing illnessess to which they had no natural immunity... still had the kindred spirit to help the settlers; when they saw that the newcomers were starving, ill, freezing to death, crops failing, and faced with the real possibility of saying "well, that's it mates, we are done for... this time next year we will be nothing but a memory and bones in a graveyard" the Native Americans were like: "hey now, hold on a minute... even though you people are hella annoying and we don't like you here, we can't just let you die off right in front of us like that, here, let's see what we can do, we'll share a bit of our food with y'all and show you how to plant the crops here in this kind of land so they will grow, you trade us a few knives or shiny doo-dads or whatever, and we'll help show you how to survive this winter. This one winter only though, and umm... do you think y'all could try to rebuild your ships and stock up on supplies and head on back to wherever you came from come summer-time? *in hopeful tone of voice*" So it's in a spirit of thanks to the Native Americans who showed kindness despite the purpose of the colonialists (to take over their land, enslave or kill off their people and etc., or perhaps no one thought that would come about, at that point they still thought they could co-exist) but in any event, it was pretty cool that the "Indians" helped the "white guys" to survive and thrive, all so that a few hundred years in the future, some self-important kid with a huge ego and tiny sense of humor can post negative comments about it on a random internet site. Or, you could just look at T-Day as a time to kick back and relax, take time off from studying, see the new James Bond movie, go shopping, and while you are doing this, look around you at the little things you have to be grateful for, or the big things that you have to be thankful for... your family or other loved ones, that you are alive.. that you are not homeless, that you live in a country that has established certain rights for people that people in some other countries are still fighting for.. (hello? girls cannot attend school in Afghanistan.. in Saudi Arabia women must be veiled and cannot go out in public without a male escort, cannot vote, drive, own property.. in some countries there is no "due process" of law, no human rights) ... Not saying we are everything we should be, we as a country are not perfect but we are ahead of many places and are still trying to form that "more perfect union" that is cited (albeit grammatically incorrectly) in the preamble to our constitution... and all because the Native Americans gave a helping hand to people who without that assist would have surely died. So, it is with thanks to the Native Americans that we celebrate Thanksgiving Day - and do not celebrate the genocide of the Native American people, as you suggested. So for one day please put aside your cynicism, distrust and general negative demeanor Blue, and eat, relax, laugh, be thankful, spend time with your family.. and have a piece of pie to try to improve your disposition, please. Refugee^{talk page} 01:38, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Wheeeee! HUGE wall of text! :p Refugee^{talk page} 01:39, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

She shut down the voting below, not this. Evil fascist^{oh noez} 01:47, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Ahhh... is that what it means? Thanks, Ty! :-) All I saw is the notice that says: "This discussion has been closed by Blue. Please do not modify it." So, it looks like the discussion is closed, not the vote. I wonder if there should be an option to say "this vote is closed...?" Refugee^{talk page} 02:08, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, aren't you cute. I wonder whether you've bothered to read what actual Native people think about Thanksgiving? It must be so nice to believe without question everything cultural authorities tell you. I am not going to dignify the rest of what you wrote with a response. Blue (is useful) 02:09, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

yes because those are opinions from actual people whereas to think otherwise is just plain silly and no real person would could think of Thanksgiving in any other way. Aceⁱ⁹ 02:30, 22 November 2012 (UTC) Sorry misread your comment. Carry on. Aceⁱ⁹ 02:32, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

<comments redacted>. I'm removing my prior comments - I just don't want to do this... no point in fighting over trivial matters on a wiki - there is already too much stress around the holidays anyway, and I don't want to add to it. Blue, I hope you do find a way to enjoy your holiday. :-) Most sincerely, and best wishes in life. I also don't care if you want to link to something in the template - whatever. It just doesn't matter in the grand scheme of life, ok? Peace & love and all that stuff... Ace, I love you much, and always will. A sweeter guy than you cannot be found, you are one in a million. Refugee^{talk page} 04:04, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

A week early

This is showing up a week early. 4Thu11 should mean fourth Thursday in November, but it's only the third. Any ideas what's wrong? Щєазєюіδ^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 10:16, 21 November 2013 (UTC)