Russian RW

I'd also like to set up a russian version of RW, as a trial. I'm still thinking it through, but basically it'd be symlinked to RW's mediawiki and use interwiki transclusion and RW as an external upload directory.

I have some concerns about separate language wikis on a meta level. My main concern is that they become small isolated communities with little to no integration back with the main site. It kinda sucks to work on a wiki where you are the only one editing. While categorized pages here aren't ideal I like that users involved in the construction of the articles are directly in the middle of the existing community, getting welcome templates, and "thanks for your work!" style talk page comments that they likely wouldn't get on a separate wiki. It also creates a bit of serendipitous feedback of people with either no interest in another language wiki but who know the language or people that only know a little of the language being able to make minor corrections or suggestions, or even catching a potential parodist.

I share Trent's view here to some degree, but it's a little chicken and egg.

How can a non-English RW take off and attract a new group of dedicated editors if it isn't given the freedom to move to its own site? But at the same time, how can it justify a move to its own site before it takes off and attracts a group of dedicated editors? (!)

However, if Nx suggests it as a trial, I'd be for that. We'd want to see how it works, how ru.RW would integrate (or not) with en.RW and whether a dedicated language would attract new users. After all, we've already pointed out that the start of a project is always the most exciting for people. It could well be that offering this blank slate could stimulate considerable interest.

I am certainly not shutting down the idea merely expressing concerns I have over it. I initially turned down the idea when it was first proposed because I wasn't even sure we would get anything. But there are now a couple different languages represented on RW. Ideally there is some ingenious technological fix to bridge the communities a bit.

Do we have any evidence of a demand for RW in Russian, beyond that one guy, or a potential demand (e.g. existence of comparable sites in Russian)? I'm not sure that putting effort into creating what may well be an empty wiki is a good idea. Better to see if the onsite content in Russian (& other languages) takes off, then fork it away if it does.

The only evidence I can offer (and it is not specific to Russian language) is that translate.google.com accounts for a significant portion of our monthly site traffic.

It's a chicken and egg thing. Anyway, "that one guy" has already put in a lot of effort, so I think it's only fair to give him a chance with a proper russian site.

But if my fear is justified and any split just creates an isolated, quarantined mini-wiki we didn't exactly do any favors by creating it and shucking content over to it.

Well yeah, but I think they have a much better chance of getting it off the ground with a separate wiki. And if it doesn't, at least we gave them a chance. The current setup is not really better IMHO.

I don't disagree. I am just wondering if there might be a better option than the two presented......

Undoubtedly it's a risk. I think we can all agree on that.

But we do have a sniff of a demand for it. So let's just compare what could happen.

We do it: 1) If the demand is there and it takes off, we have expanded the wiki, introduced it to a new audience and all is great. 2) If the demand is not there, we have wasted the effort and risk making a small, isolated community that is virtually non-existent.

We don't do it: 1) If the demand is there, it won't manifest itself. 2) If the demand is not there, it won't manifest itself.

I think it's clear we would have to take the risk to see any form result!

By "we", you of course mean "me". And I'm fine with wasting an afternoon on this if it doesn't take off.

But yes.

However, I realise I forgot to write the other caveat I was thinking of, which would be to assess the amount of effort required. After all, any project we you do would have to be based on a good effort-to-awesome ratio.

Come to think of it, wouldn't it be best to ask "that one guy" first? :P

User talk:Trycatch. He said he would like to have a russian site.

I suppose everything has to start somewhere and two users is a start!

Okay, but lets think about shoring up some of the potential pitfalls early. How difficult (I haven't checked but I know wikimedia does it) is it to set up shared user names between the sites? Maybe we should set up a WIGO RW that lets us point and link to WIGO at our various projects (other language wikis, evowiki, some soon to be potentially announced). Other ideas? Offering the tools to keep the community integrated across projects is important I think.

Well shared database doesn't seem hard to implement. That is a good start at least.

The problem is that this is sort of a hack. E.g. I don't think the new user log is shared etc.

Well lets test out ru.rationalbeta.com

Course, since most of us don't speak Russian, we're taking your word that that's what it actually says on the talkpage... :p

I run it all through Google translator occasionally and it's fine.

It's halfway between mere curiosity and healthy paranoia...

In Russia, Wiki rationalize you! (OK, it's lame, but somebody had to say it.)

Please see this discussion.

AFAIC that's the best asnewr so far!