User talk:Bertran

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New logo large.png Welcome to RationalWiki, Bertran!

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Pull up a goat and have some fun!

Any questions? Please see the help page or ask me on my talk page.

Hi there, and welcome to RationalWiki. User:Tmtoulouse would be the go-to guy for creating a Russian section of this Wiki. The Goonie 1 What's this button do? Uh oh.... 19:58, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for your help!--Bertran (talk) 23:16, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
Thanks very much for the Russian work. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 23:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi!Vitus (talk) 07:30, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Racio-Viki vs RacioViki[edit]

I'm going to recreate the other language logos because there are some problems with them, and before I begin I'd like to know why you put a dash in there? Why not just RacioViki? -- Nx / talk 08:13, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I thought about it during a long time. I proceeded from the rules of creation of new words in Russian. But a word "RationalWiki" (and "RacinalWiki" etc.), as I understand this, is not created with complete accordance to the rules of English. So, I think, you can to remove dash out there to support RW-traditions. And I'll remove dash out there in the article. OK?--Bertran (talk) 12:03, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
Ok, I'll upload the new logos in a minute. -- Nx / talk 12:08, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Sysoppery[edit]

Congrats, you have been made a sysop. Any questions, refer to your text book. Lord of the Goons The official spikey-haired skeptical punk 00:32, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!--Bertran (talk) 00:34, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Russian Redirects[edit]

Hi there, curious about all your redirects. I am not sure they are necessary? Whats your thinking on this? Ace McfuckingAwesome 20:25, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Nevermind, I see what is happening - carry on and ignore me in future. No good will come from paying heed to my insane ramblings. Ace McfuckingAwesome 20:28, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
In the future, there will be the Russian-language papers. Because of this, it is easier to do redirects now than to replace the numerous internal links from English into Russian in the future.--Bertran (talk) 20:31, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
Cookie half.jpg For demonstrating exemplary goatery in the line of duty, Concernedresident
has awarded you a used pre-owned! and slightly stale cookie.
Ewwwwwww.
Cockroaches ate half of it.
I can't read Russian, but I assume it all makes sense. Nice idea. Concernedresident omg!!! ponies!!! 18:26, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
Thank you very much, from me! Scarlet A.pngnarchist 18:38, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
Thank you!--Bertran (talk) 18:42, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
My browser won't allow me to reply in the forum thread, so here's my take on this. I'd say continue, and what you're doing is appreciated. Each new article creates maintainence overhead, and this is compounded in localized articles, but if an article is later found to be gibberish we can just get rid of it. Please continue! Concernedresident omg!!! ponies!!! 19:00, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

List[edit]

Instead of adding each article to your talk page you can use the following code:

<dpl>
category       = Русский
createdby      = Bertran
listseparators =,¶#[[%PAGE%¦%TITLE%]],
</dpl>

This will list the articles in category:Русский that you have created.

Scarlet A.pngnarchist 15:21, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! This is very helpful advice.--Bertran (talk) 15:27, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Machine translation[edit]

In my reply to your comment is a machine translation of my comment into Russian, feel free to clean it up. Myrtonos@ 13:20, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I'll take this into account.--Bertran (talk) 13:35, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Also, if you'd like, I could place draft translations in your userspace for you to work on. Myrtonos@ 09:52, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
I am not sure, that I completely understand what you are talking about. What are the drafts you have in mind?--Bertran (talk) 11:20, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

I am referring to say placing automated translations (which are drafts) them in a page titled User:Bertran/ARTICLENAME. --Myrtonos@ 11:51, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Are you talking about already existed Russian articles or about new articles (have not yet written)? On already existing Russian articles, all the translations were cleaned up. Actually, I didn't use draft to write them. I make my articles completely finished after first edit.--Bertran (talk) 14:12, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
I mean new ones, automtaed tranlation requires cleanup, but can still speed up the process.--Myrtonos@ 11:13, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm sorry for my incomprehension (my English is poor). But I will clarify again. You are talking about a big lot of automatical translation to drafts, and you propose, after that, to clean up all these automatical translations (which are in the drafts) to the mainspace, are you? Or you are not?--Bertran (talk) 14:00, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

No, I mean that if I have permission, I would like to put automated transltaions in your userspace so you (and other Russian contirbutors) can clean it up. --Myrtonos@ 14:35, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok, you can do this. You can send your automated transltaions to the page User:Bertran/Automated_translations--Bertran (talk) 15:18, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
I did but there was a citing error.--Myrtonos@ 00:14, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

I fixed the citing error but you still havn't got to work on it. --Myrtonos@ 10:26, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, there is a lot of various translation mistakes. I can't remove them without original (English) version of article.
English and Russian languages are too different, so actually it needs to translate (at least, for me) sentence by sentence, spending nearly 3-5 min per sentence. I.e., automated translation is good only for short, simple sentences, and, especially, word combinations. But structure of compound sentences is often very different in these two lenguages and automated translation doesn't give yield a good result. Also, there is a lot of problems with stylistics and polysemy of many words.
If you want, in the future you can create pages like User:Bertran/ArticleName in my user space and not use User:Bertran/Automated_translations.--Bertran (talk) 17:16, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes but if an article does contain some short simple sentences those could still be translated using automated translation, I have one for you, however you did say that automated translation was good for short and simple sentences and word combinations, as the article deos contain some of these I did run those as well as section titles through rustran but still leave you, as a person, to what you can do better that the computer. --Myrtonos@ 06:18, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for helping in contributions to the Russion section. But some Russian sentences are looking not very good. Today or maybe tomorrow I'll incomplete translation of this article in a new page, so you'll be able to compare both versions and to fill diferences between both literary languages. Even simple sentences are often (aproxiomatly in a half of the cases) translated incorrect (because of multiplicity of meanings of many words of both languages) by Google Translation.--Bertran (talk) 11:11, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Babelboxes[edit]

cat doesn't work, but you can add them If you like. ТyTalk. 21:36, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I do. If you need some Russian literary translations, you can ask me, and I'll do this.--Bertran (talk) 21:39, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Eh?[edit]

What exactly are you typing in Russian?--Colonel Sanders (talk) 20:18, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

This pages are Russian translations from [1] and [2] to Список утверждений креационистов.--Bertran (talk) 20:21, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Maybe I am a little dimwitted but perhaps you could explain why you are posting russian translations of talk origin pages on to the mainspace of rationalwiki. --DamoHi 21:46, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
I do this with accordance to the purpose of Russian RationalWiki. If you are asking for legitimacy of this making, you can talk to user:Tyrannis, or user:Armondikov, or see discussion: Forum:Other_editions_of_RationalWiki#Articles like Большинство мутаций вредны.--Bertran (talk) 22:07, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Well russian pages I can understand (sort of) but you are just posting translations from another site. We shouldn't be a dump for another site's material like this. --DamoHi 22:19, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Firstly, this translations are my own work and own work of my friends. And we do this, because there is no Russian translation of talkorigins at all, while their project is, maybe, the best anticreationist project in Internet. And secondary, this responses to creationists' claims, some of which are translations from talk.origins, are not finished. And, of-course, they can be improved by adding some other responses. You can compare this process with EvoWiki (i.e., [3]).--Bertran (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
I am sure they are wonderful translations and I am equally sure they will be of value somewhere on the internet. I just cannot see why you think that they are appropriate for an English wiki. --DamoHi 22:47, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
I've already explained it at Talk:RationalWiki#Information_about_Russian_section.--Bertran (talk) 22:52, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
(EC) Damo, you might have missed the discussions that led to RationalWiki:Languages. Seme Blue 22:53, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Phone editing EC ugh. I see great value in Bertran's project with expanding our reach by providing an important resource that he says isn't available in Russian. Why do you think this is an English only wiki, are you aware of the prior discussions in which consensus was derived in support of the project, and have you seen Trent's post about us getting a substantial amount of new traffic from the FSSR? Nutty Roux100x100 anarchy symbol.svgUser:Nutty Roux/sigtalk 22:58, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Maybe I missed part of the discussion, but my understanding was that Russian RW (& any other languages) would contain translations of existing RW articles, plus new content in the same vein. Translations of articles from other sites opens up a lot of issues, like copyright & like changing the nature of the site. I'm not really in favour of that. ЩєазєюіδWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 23:00, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
EvoWiki is a part of RationalWiki now. So, my translations of EvoWiki seems satisfy your requirements. On the other hand, talk.origins almost completely coincide with EvoWiki in responses to creationists' claims (because, as I understand, EvoWiki were a part of talk.origins earlier). That why this translations can be considered as translation of already existing articles, which belongs to RW.--Bertran (talk) 23:26, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes exactly. I have two objections to this; 1 I don't think we should have foreign language articles(but this appears to have been decided already), 2 these "articles" are just copies of another sites material. We wouldn't allow them if they were in English, why are we allowing them just because they are in Russian? --DamoHi 23:05, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Because they're in Russian. Hope that helps. Nutty Roux100x100 anarchy symbol.svgUser:Nutty Roux/sigtalk 23:09, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
You are right only particularly. Some of this articles are on another site (in some group in some social Internet network like facebook). My friend is an author of this some translation and he told that I can take some of result of his work. Other articles (more then 50) are represented only here.--Bertran (talk) 23:17, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Copyright[edit]

But quite a lot of them seem to be translated from TalkOrigins, where "Copyright © 2006" or similar appears at the top of every page. The article texts don't lose their copyrighted status when they are translated into another language. Have you contacted the authors to check whether they are cool about having Russian versions of their articles hosted on a Creative Commons wiki where they could be edited by anybody? ŴêâŝêîôîďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 23:27, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
This is a good question. And there are two possible solutions. First, to contact Mark Isaac and to ask him. And second, to make some edits and to remove template template:TalkOriginsCC(ru). Initially, I try to do first a way. If he will not answer, I'll do according to the second plan.--Bertran (talk) 23:36, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Err, no. Copyright doesn't work this way. If Mark Isaac doesn't agree to licensing his work/your translation under CC-BY-SA, the only other option is to vaporize the articles. You can try to build your own "Index", but not based on his material.--ZooGuard (talk) 09:46, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
And what about this?--Bertran (talk) 10:41, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Ugh. It looks like that they (EvoWiki) ripped off Mark Isaac's index (the index page, and perhaps the citations for some claims themselves) at some point, but the few articles I checked are original content, not reproductions of Mark Isaac's answers/rebuttals.
Are your translations translations of the EvoWiki articles, or direct translations of Mark Isaac's answers?--ZooGuard (talk) 11:08, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Some articles are translations from EvoWiki and some — from TalkOrigins--Bertran (talk) 11:18, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
To ZooGuard. Mark Isaak told me that he has no objection to Russian translation the Index, but there also is a publisher of his book, that I sent request to him. So, I think that let these page continue their being at RW till response from publisher. Furthermore, at the page page we can see that EvoWiki use this Index. Hence, if it needs to stop this translation, so it needs to delete a big part of the EvoWiki. Or I've missed something?--Bertran (talk) 16:28, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
You should ask him and the publisher not only if you can translate the claims, but if the translation can be put in a wiki licensed under CC-BY-SA 3.0. --ZooGuard (talk) 07:09, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
I showed him a few translated pages from RW, so he says that he hasn't objectives. See the thread: http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/browse_thread/thread/3f4596179b086dd7/69ca186778cc26f1#69ca186778cc26f1 . I think that it is obvious, that I talked about this or similar license.--Bertran (talk) 07:51, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

By the way. And what you think about that EvoWiki recognized that they copied this index? About my activity. I'll copy the rest of Russian translations. And if there will some problems I will do something with this. For example, I'll modify them into retellings by adding some other responses (and it will be a compilation of EvoWiki's and TalkOrigins's responses). On retellings copyrights can't be expanded.--Bertran (talk) 08:21, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

This is the third time you link to that page. :) Yes, the EvoWiki people were a bit idiotic. But if you look at the articles on the claims themselves, you'll see that most of them are either "retellings" or original content. You are getting further.
As for the Creative Commons license, you need explicit consent to it, especially from Mark Isaac's publisher, because it allows not only your translations, but everyone else to use them. Note that this is not the version of the license that prohibits commercial re-publishing, so, in theory, someone can compile them and sell them as a book in Russian.--ZooGuard (talk) 07:01, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I linked into this page three times. Because there are only two possibilities: either they have similar permissions, or they haven't it. But, since TalkOrigins links to EvoWiki, I think that they must to have this permissions.
Recently, I sent a request to the publisher about this and they will consider it during 4—6 weeks. But I didn't mention a specific license CC-BY-SA 3.0. I'll send it again and I'll mention this license. But I think that almost certainly they will refuse the request. In this way I'll edit all the responses, that are translations from Mark Isaak. My final purpose is not to translate Mark Isaak's pages, but to give responses to creationist claims.--Bertran (talk) 07:34, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

If I may interject[edit]

I rather enjoy your Russian translation project, and think it is an asset to this Wiki. AnarchoGoon Swatting Assflys is how I earn my living 13:54, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your supporting. There is just another problem: while there are some editors against project, my working will provoke conflicts. And I don't want this.--Bertran (talk) 14:37, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
We have many conflicts here. This site you see, is really two sites: One that is the site you see, and the other a forum about Conservapedia. We have no real decision making process, and as such arguments happen. But the consensus seems to be in your favor. ТyTalk. 14:41, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Probably, this atmosphere is not the best for collective analysis and refuting pseudoscience (as it is d. declared as the goal of RW). It needs to do something.--Bertran (talk) 15:15, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
We have tried. People scream "Authoritarianism!" or "Fascism!" and then nothing gets done. ТyTalk. 15:21, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Just continue, I don't think there is any real opinion against the project. And I fully support it. Although I can't contribute as I only speak English and Bad English. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 22:30, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
See the discussion on your talkpage. By the way, I know Bad English too, but not just English.--Bertran (talk) 23:34, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

ru.rw[edit]

I assume you will be interested in Forum:Russian RationalWiki this. Tmtoulouse (talk) 22:29, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, you're right. But it's to late now at my region. So, I'll continue my discussion tomorrow.--Bertran (talk) 22:58, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Cleanup[edit]

I think you missed one since it wasn't categorized: Уровень преступности и т.п. вырос после того, как начали преподавать эволюцию  :) ThunderkatzHo! 19:42, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I did. Thank you!--Bertran (talk) 08:37, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Russian weapons[edit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHfZBQyr2Fs

I was wondering if what this man is saying is what the subtitles say. I know people have often faked subtitles to make a point. ADK...I'll advocate your etching! 13:25, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Subtitles are completely correct. But this man is well-known funnyman in Russian politics. His name is w:Vladimir Zhirinovsky.--Bertran (talk) 15:09, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
A Russian Boris Johnson? :) ADK...I'll lick your chump! 15:58, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
Yes. His claims are often extraordinar. Every his public speech is a show.--Bertran (talk) 16:37, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the info. He sounds fun to have as a politician. ADK...I'll fumble your oddball! 16:41, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
You're welcome. By the way there were much radical and non censorial his assertions that contains a lots of gibberish in some other video (though, I don't remember where is it). But without subtitles in English. He was very drunken at this video and this was a message to Bush junior (he tells something about Baghdad and Tbilisi).--Bertran (talk) 00:31, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Storkism[edit]

Regardless of the status as essay or article, you need to present your permission to copy someone else's work. Are you the author or do you know him and can get permission? I'm not sure where you need to put it on the article - probably in the reference.--Pink mowse.pngGodotDear god, fucking grow up 22:52, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

The author gave me permission for translating and I have done it especial for RW. Also I gave the link to the article to him. And if something wrong he will contact me. Presumably, tomorrow.--Mr. B 22:56, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
There's a lot of problems with that, especially of SOPA is involved. So make sure you get some kind of written permission! :-) --Pink mowse.pngGodotDear god, fucking grow up 22:59, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
It is easier to ask him to join this discussion.--Mr. B 23:02, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
-- I confirm that I gave the permission to translation (and publication) of a parody of creationism (Storkism). I have no complaints to the user Bertran. --Novvak (Yaroslav Novak) 10:18, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
It's nice to keep things aboveboard, but it is a hassle. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 11:37, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Math tag on ru.rw[edit]

I've enabled the Math extension and put in the config identically to en.rw. I have no idea if it works, please test and let me know - David Gerard (talk) 23:21, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

All is fine now, thank you!--Mr. B 09:35, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Editing rights, ru:rw upgrade[edit]

You should now have actual powers to go with your tech rights.

Also, I've just upgraded ru:rw to 1.19.3 - no-one should see any functional differences - David Gerard (talk) 21:39, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, now I have an access, thx!--Mr. B 22:30, 25 February 2013 (UTC)