User:Naqoyqatsi/Lies

Violence in Gaming 2.0

If Elliot Rodger had not been exposed to the wingnuttery of the manosphere, he and his 6 victims would probably be alive today. — RationalWiki:Saloon_bar

The _______ shooting would not have been done by _______ if he hadn't been exposed to _________.

Fill it in according to your stripe of politics and, for advanced users, which freshman psychology course you just took and remember: your pet theory is special.

Counterpoint

Pointing out certain toxic ideologies were a precipitating factor in a mass murder (considering we have a manifesto that spells all that shit out) is not the same as saying Doom or Quake caused Columbine.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 21:59, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Rebuttal

Marc Lépine found a way to hate women and kill people without the help of the manosphere.--Naqoyqatsi (talk) 22:09, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Response

Anti-feminism exists without the Internet but it's certainly found a new way to propagate itself in the form of the manosphere.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 22:13, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Rebuttal

Which is why violence against women has declined 64% in the US over the past decade.--Naqoyqatsi (talk) 23:51, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Response

Maybe thanks to the fact that feminism is beating the "MRA"movement's fucking ass? Feminism is stronger than ever. The difference is that, now, the MRA movement is more concentrated and more toxic -- cuz the internet plays to niches, like "legitimate rape" sort of niches. Cømrade FυzzчCαтPøтαтø (talk/stalk) 00:00, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Rebuttal

Cool thoughts. Edit: To specify, that means that claiming that #CancelColbert, pulling fire alarms, and Slutwalks are the reason violent crime is decreasing (and also violence against women) is so outlandish a claim I have no idea how to even counter it. So if you're trying to troll me, stalemate I guess.--Naqoyqatsi (talk) 02:43, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

What are you even trying to prove with those examples?—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 02:28, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Maybe "beating the MRA movement's fucking ass" by pulling fire alarms, yelling at people, and trending #killallmen isn't the best way to fight violent crime. Perhaps you'll answer my question: what have Zoe Quinn and Brianna Wu done for you?--Naqoyqatsi (talk) 02:49, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

^{[citation needed]}, ^{[citation needed]}, no one in Gamergate understands irony, dank memes.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 02:51, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Haha, and Gators are supposed to be the ones with something to hide.--Naqoyqatsi (talk) 02:57, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

I don't know what situations you're referring to with the firs two, #killallmen is stupid shit and that's why everything in it is hyperbole except reactionaries don't understand hyperbole, and you're missing out on all the dank memes.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:14, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Alex Lifschitz

"They took my jobs!"

But this is not about me. Alex is not me. He’s not my appendage. Yet he has had all of the same damage I have been hit with visited unto him - he was homeless for months alongside me. He has had his family terrorized, just like mine. He was left without work because of a bunch of teenagers with nothing better to do but bombard thousands of people hoping to find the one coward who will give in. He has taken all of the damage I have, to remain fighting for the future of this industry, to have his hope that things will get better steadily eroded away by companies telling him he’s too much of a “risk” for all of that good work he’s done. And you probably don’t even know his name. Alexander Lifschitz is not my boyfriend any more than Amal Alamuddin is George Clooney’s wife. He is a gifted producer with an actual sense for game design - my original impetus for working with him was that he was the first producer I had ever met that made me want to work with a producer. Ironically I never romantically pursued him because I didn’t want to lose the best producer I ever had - he was too good at what he did for me to risk anything with a stupid crush. He’s helped ship major console games at Microsoft, as well as smaller indie stuff. He’s the kind of guy who can talk to anyone and knows how to motivate and coordinate a team no matter how stubborn or diverse they are. I have seen him lead and produce projects through all of this nightmare, and managing to ship despite having *literal nazis* on his heels. He didn’t fight back for me, he fought back for this industry and our right to exist within it free from harm. How has the industry responded to his loyalty? Dubbing him a hiring risk. Too hot to touch. Heaven forbid some teenagers spam them with meme-laden emails. SmegmaDan’s blog said Alex hated gamers, better not hire him it could be risky. — Quinnspiracy Blog

It is worth noting that anyone who posts obscene or offensive content online will find employment difficult. Zoe's attempts to paint him as an innocent victim in a larger conspiracy when he was, in fact, one of the prime conspirators. Claiming playing video games makes you garbage will make it difficult to find a job making them. This aside, in today's world background checks are the norm for job applicants - large companies will sometimes even pass over candidates for what they "like" on facebook. It sucks, yes, but a Gamergate conspiracy is not the root of Alex's woes and his refusal to acknowledge this has not done him any favors.

It is also worth noting that Alex's attitude was markedly different when he thought "GG" would be the ones blacklisted. His "scarlet letter" quote makes him considerably less sympathetic as a blacklist victim.

"Alex will be homeless because of this! Oh the humanity!"

Me? I'm more concerned with not having a home for six months because giant publishers shit their pants at the prospect of having principle. — Alexander Lifschitz

Ignoring the fact that Alex was content with the idea of wrongthinkers being unemployable, this is patently untrue. Alex's father is a corporate executive and they seem to be on good terms as he lives in property registered under his parents' name.

Randi Harper's Blockbot

In a Bizarro world version of the War on Science, Randi's 200-line marvel has garnered praise from journalists with neither experience nor interest in computer algorithms. However, it does not take a technical background to understand a simple fact: No "tool" which can be circumvented by creating a new account is "the best thing women in tech have to fight harassment". The best thing women in tech, or anywhere, to fight harassment is not a bash script. It's the police. If you're unwilling to go to the police over something online, your precious script won't save you because:

1. It can be circumvented by a new account.
2. Harassers are, contrary to a popular belief, not easily deterred and they will create a new account to harass you.
3. If they are unwilling to do the aforementioned statement and you did not feel inclined to contact the police over it, you're just oversensitive.
4. Accounts using the GGAutoBlocker are easily traced due to the predictable blocking pattern. If a harasser was looking for vulnerable targets, a simple search on KotakuInAction - or anywhere else really - would determine who's using the GGAutoBlocker.

And then there's this, which states "harassers are okay, just harass the right people." Oh, did I mention the creator herself is a harasser?

Common Deflections

She wrote a script that exploited #OpSkyNet to prevent 99.9% of Gamergaters from being able to dogpile the people who want to subscribe to her bot accounts' block lists. — User talk:Naqoyqatsi/Lies

"Dogpiling" is frequently used interchangeably with "harassment", despite the fact that several tangentially related parties simultaneously Tweeting or contacting someone via public channels is not always harassment or even abusive. For example, in "Brianna Wu and Lying By Omission", O'Brien's office "received a number of emails and phone calls that wasted time and resources to respond to concerned persons who apparently observed these postings" due to Wu's premature histrionics about O'Brien despite never making any attempt to contact him herself. This could, by their own definition, constitute a case of "dogpiling" provoked by Wu. In fact, the creator of the blockbot and her followers have indeed harassed individuals themselves, some of her ilk going so far as to issue death threats.

But Dogpiling IS Harassment!

Dogpiling is harassment. — User talk:Naqoyqatsi/Lies

No, it's not. If a large number of people simultaneously debunk a racist who posts a fake statistic via Twitter, he isn't being harassed.

Dogpiling and sealioning, which is what Gators do best, is harassment you ass. — User talk:Naqoyqatsi/Lies

But verbally abusing people is not. I don't consider petty namecalling on the internet harassment either, but this is a good example of the double standard many of Gamergate's critics will apply to themselves. At the end of the day, "it's okay if we do it".

Brianna Wu and Lying by Omission

May 20: Brianna Wu releases a threatening phone call she received after her phone number was doxxed. She says she has been in contact with Ron O'Brien, the local Prosecuting Attorney. At first, she did not have a satisfactory response, but ultimately was put in touch with O'Brien and made headway with her case against her caller. — Timeline of Gamergate

[Editor’s Note: We’ve written about the serious harassment video game developer Brianna Wu has received many times on The Mary Sue. Today she’s here to tell us in her own words how the police aren’t doing anything about it.] — The Mary Sue

Comments:

Despite the inflammatory heading, Mrs. Wu never contacted the prosecutor herself before writing that "the prosecuting attorney in that district is Ron O’Brien. If he wished, he could bring criminal charges against this man by the end of the day." She later claimed she "gets so many threats [...] that she has to have employees handle the police reports, and apparently the one in this case was misdirected, right before a change in the person who did the job" to bizjournals.com. It is worth noting that The Mary Sue, the sole source for the claim cited on the Gamergate Timeline, has also failed to add this pertinent information to their recent update. A cursory acknowledgement, "Wu has given an update to Columbus Biz Insider on this situation regarding O’Brien’s office saying they had no criminal complaint on file", was added later on with a quote from Wu regarding the situation. The Mary Sue have yet to seek comment from O'Brien or his colleagues; Brietbart has:

A police report or investigation as to Brianna Wu has not been filed or referred to this office. That is the normal method to report a crime, cause an investigation or seek a prosecution. Brianna Wu has had no contact with anyone in this office or the cyber stalking unit of the city prosecutors office. Brianna Wu has not provided any evidence to this office, including any tapes of phone calls allegedly received. Brianna Wu stated online that the alleged caller could be identified if a subpoena was merely issued yet a cell, landline or phone number is not in possession of this office for that purpose; and the proper method to accomplish that is through law enforcement not online posts. The local FBI office has referred nothing to this office regarding Wu nor contacted us indicating they intend to do so. For unknown reasons Brianna Wu chose to post something online regarding such threats stating they came from Columbus and it was within our authority. Yet she has never had contact of any kind or nature with this office. As a result, this office received a number of emails and phone calls that wasted time and resources to respond to concerned persons who apparently observed these postings. — Brietbart

Deflections

Wu apologized to O'Brien for having caused the problem because it was a mistake on her end. — User talk:Naqoyqatsi/Lies

By this logic, every criminal conviction or lawsuit ever could be nullified by a public apology. Luckily, not everyone is so naive.

Rebuttals of Gamergate

Holy haystacks, Batman!

TL;DR a square-off with statements from sourced anti-Gamergate at one side and statements sourced from anti-Gamergate on the other.

Gamergate Hasn't Harmed Anyone

Claim: Gamergate is a about ethics; ethics precludes harassment and doxxing! — Rebuttals of Gamergate

If harassers who also use the hashtag are representative of Gamergate, then by that logic Randi Harper and others represent anti-Gamergate. It is also notable that the above quote has not been sourced to anyone notable or even forgettable who claims to be a part of Gamergate.

1. Anita Sarkeesian released a new video in her Tropes vs. Women in Video Game series. Almost immediately, she received "some very scary threats" towards herself and her family, leading her to also leave her home, only temporarily.[28] — Rebuttals of Gamergate

As the source article does not even mention Gamergate, this suggests less incompetence and more malice on the part of the editor.

"Anti-gamergate"

Claim: Anti-Gamergate is its own movement set on bullying, harassing, and attacking Gamergate just like Gamergate bullies everyone else Reality: 'Anti-GG' as some nebulous thing is not a group because they do not have any kind of real organization or culture related to that identity. For example, when you criticize the Westboro Baptist Church, that doesn't make you part of the Anti-WBC movement, because there's no central organization or culture in attacking the WBC. To lump together absolutely every single entity that criticizes Gamergate from Gawker to Anita Sarkeesian to the New York Times is ludicrous. — Rebuttals of Gamergate

Rebuttal:

Anti-Gamergate lives in an alternate universe with an alternate history, in which Anti-Gamergate has doxxed nobody, has significantly increased female representation in gaming, is supported by a broad coalition of diverse people, and is generally pretty great. Surprisingly, they're incorrect. This page is a list of Anti-Gamergate's positions and associated rebuttals. — Rebuttals of Gamergate, modified

Claim: Gamergate is its own movement set on bullying, harassing, and attacking Anti-Gamergate just like Anti-Gamergate bullies everyone else Reality: 'GG' as some nebulous thing is not a group because they do not have any kind of real organization or culture related to that identity. For example, when you criticize the Westboro Baptist Church, that doesn't make you part of the Anti-WBC movement, because there's no central organization or culture in attacking the WBC. To lump together absolutely every single entity that criticizes Anti-Gamergate from Brietbart to Forbes to Christina Hoff Sommers is ludicrous. — Rebuttals of Gamergate, modified

How do any of those sources prove that anti-GG is an organized entity?

Seriously? How do any of those sources prove that anti-GG is an organized entity? They just attack anti-GG as evil. — User talk:Naqoyqatsi/Lies

Rebuttal:

Seriously? How do any of those sources prove that GG is an organized entity? They just attack GG as evil. — User talk:Naqoyqatsi/Lies, modified

Rebuttal rebuttal:

Seriously? How do any of those sources prove that anti-GG is an organized entity? They just attack anti-GG as evil. — User talk:Naqoyqatsi/Lies

Point:

The article's defense of Anti-GG is equally valid as a defense of GG, yet it casts GG as an organized entity without providing any evidence of GG's hegemonic structure.

Counterpoint:

Oh fucking really? Because, as one instance, the chatposts about organizing #NotYourShield as a PR campaign mean nothing, and are totally things that leaderless, nonstructured movements do. FuzzyDogPotato (talk/stalk) 03:14, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

#StopGamerGate? Randi's twitter block bot? Zoe Quinn's CON-job? The GJP list where people admitted to lying about harassment they received and pinning it on GG in order to better frame anyone talking about their bad behavior on twitter as part of a hate group? That people actively took a stance attacking and smearing anyone even talking about GamerGate in even a neutral facility doesn't constitute a leaderless nonstructured countermovement? Literally all they had to do was to post a basic ethics code, require disclosure, and prevent their journalists from donating to the patreons of the subjects they are covering and GamerGate would have ended in August. Instead they doubled down on a narrative spin as part of a doomed PR spin. That's what happened. That's all GG is. People had been bitching about the cronyism for years before hand, that's well documented. The stupidity of the editors and the bay area cliquesters in charge of these game review websites pissed off a bunch of their readers for pointing out how unbelievably unprofessional they were behaving. For Christs sakes people you had them openly discussing on twitter how games producers brought in prostitutes at a launch party for the reviewers. SERIOUSLY. Which is more plausible? A close clique of journalists get called out for their remarkably well documented bad behavior and they end up shooting the messenger and manipulating social media and their social contacts to do so or a secret cabal of internet muhsoggyknees attacked a woman for her sexual past in order to fight back the tides of progress and keep women and girls out of gaming and preserve the status quo by fighting against feminist warriors trying to critique video games eventually hijacked by a right-wing MRA hate groups and gay neoreactionaries in order to "Red-Pill" the gaming community and then... the world! The former is accurate, simple, and was literally discussed openly by the journalists involved. The latter is a tinfoil batshit crazy and unfalsifiable conspiracy theory. Case closed.--72.207.244.46 (talk) 20:43, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

^{[citation needed]}—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 21:28, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Let me go through these more particularly

• #StopGamerGate is a hashtag that no one is organizing harassment on.
• The GGAB lets people who don't want to deal with Gamergate get their wish.
• "CON-job" is a cute name BoN. Crash Override Network is a response to Gamergate because people should not be SWATed over fucking video games.
• GameJournoPros had no such discussion of lying about harassment AFAIK. Since the whole list was leaked, you're free to point out emails where this is explicitly happening. Where someone has said "Let's lie about being harassed".
• What are you even trying to say with "a leaderless nonstructured countermovement". Reality is biased against Gamergate because everything Gamergate stands for is based in conspiracy theories and baseless conjecture.
• Gamergate has done NOTHING to address actual ethical concerns and instead exploited known issues to their favor, such as with Operation Disrespectful Nod and Operation Baby Seal. Gamergate lauds Doritosgate as meaning something, when all that's been done is telling advertisers to drop websites they hate which is exactly what was the problem with Doritosgate.
• Friendships are not "cronyism". No one who was a friend of Quinn reviewed Depression Quest and it doesn't fucking cost anything. So to say she benefited in anyway financially is fucking ridiculous.
• More "San Francisco" conspiracy garbage.
• The former never happened and the latter is literally what Gamergate has become.

Good day, BoN—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 23:09, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

"Nude photographs acquired in the hack were distributed online and to her family and employers."

This concerns one Zoe Quinn, who stated that her pictures were acquired in a hack, no she said that they were sent to an ex, no...

The long and short of it is they were for a porno site which anyone with a credit card could "hack". After much bellyaching, her defenders wavered and updated the section with "even dropping enough hints for someone in the mob to find professional nude photographs she had posed for". This seems to imply it was for an art project, not a porno shoot, and is also based on her word alone.

Archive: User:Naqoyqatsi/Hacking

But #NotYourShield is a Conspiracy!

This is based exclusively on chatlogs that Zoe Quinn screencapped on an IRC channel.

Even this tenuous evidence is compromised by the following circumstantial and not-so-circumstantial observations:

1. These were posted on public chatroom. Anyone could have posted them.

   It is worth observing that public, and often anonymous, websites and chatrooms have been how #Gamergate has operated for some time now. Contrast this with the opaque channels used by their most vocal opponents.

2. The first user of the hashtag was a racial minority, not a false flag.

   A refutation of sorts is that the man "was following orders from the 4Chan GamerGate cabal". No comment.