Aha, so this is what Santorum meant by "Dogon Man" sex... --Kels 15:25, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
- Uhh... What? That's not one of his quotes I'm familiar with. ThunderkatzHo! 15:30, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
- Santorum is famous for suggesting in an AP interview that legalizing same-sex marriage would lead to a host of ills, including "man on dog" sex. It's quite hilarious, and got him widely parodied. --Kels 17:05, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
Dogon Peoples and Sirius: Astronomy knowledge from neighbors in Timbuktu?
I noted that Carl Sagan is quoted as suggesting that any astronomical information the Dagon might have garnered came from Europeans. However, they were not studying the sky from the same position over long stretches of time, so this is unlikely. Also, why assume the knowledge came from Europeans? The Dagon are a people of Mali. Timbuktu, the ancient home of African scholars, was also in Mali. Pre-Islamic studies and Post Islamic studies of Timbuktu included astronomy. There is a project to restore some of the studies from this period. However, because of the preference Eurocentric historical study, we have only the recollections of the Islamic travelers . Unfortunately, the writings of 10th to 12th century Muslims is tainted by the hostility Moorish and Arabian traders encountered. Hudud al-`alam's and Ibn Battuta's writings appear very similar to European observations of the Indigenous Peoples of the Americas they encountered, or of the Roman's writing of the Celts or other peoples of Western Europe. Any community of Nation that accepted Islam, colonization, or had knowledge of the Arabic language in general were considered intelligent, kind, virtuous, and attractive. Any community that rejected Islam, colonization, enslavement were considered barbaric, ugly, savage. Also, it appears that during colonial times Africans might have made up stories to discourage slave raids of first the Islamic, then later European Christian colonist. We also have the writings of Roman and Greeks about people of North Africa, but it appears that few of the ancient's ventured beyond the Sudan or ancient Kush. — Unsigned, by: Hunter3 / talk / contribs
- There is the slight problem that the telescope had not been invented until 1608. TyBother me 01:25, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
Because it can't fit in the "summary" section....
It seems the whole concept of Sagan backing up the European idea comes from his The Demon-Haunted World (the Skepdic link includes this in the further reading). Having a copy of this book myself, I've found the relevant claim on page 333:
“”The Dogon...are said by a French anthropologist to have a legend that the star Sirius has an extremely dense companion star [which it does]....So (1) did the Dogon...descend from a...civilization [sic] that had large optical telescopes...? Or, (2) were they instructed by [aliens]...? Or, (3) did the Dogon hear about [Sirius B]...from a visiting European? Or, (4) was the French anthropologist mitaken and the Dogon in fact never had such a legend?
Sagan was just listing Europeans as one of four proposed explanations without supporting or opposing any of them. Although 3 and 4 are the most plausible, Sagan doesn't expressly or implicitly that he prefers 3 to 4. Immortality's fun, except when you become a two-headed monster Talk to me or view my art 18:34, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
- Sometimes, "what it seems to be" is not "what it is". Sagan also discussed the Dogon claim in Broca's Brain. In the Skepdic article, it's cited right above the more famous book - you seem to have missed it:
Sagan, Carl. Broca's Brain (New York: Random House, 1979), ch. 6, "White Dwarfs and Little Green Men".
- Some parts of your edit were good, some I will change now.--ZooGuard (talk) 18:59, 13 January 2013 (UTC)