Talk:Francisco Franco

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"Liberal" Spanish republic[edit]

Wasn't it rather socialist? It was led by a popular front government when Franco staged his coup, after all... Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 17:07, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, quite true. I'll edit it to reflect that. Mcc1789 (talk) 01:48, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
On a related note Spanish Civil War is an article that at least 50 voters deem to be missing... Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 19:53, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

What does "totalitarian" mean? Was Franco one?[edit]

In essence the common definition of "totalitarian" means "encompassing all aspects of live, including private ones". In a totalitarian regime, the government won't be happy with you just staying at home, not opposing them, they need to bath in your love daily. Like the huge rallies in Hitler-Germany or under Stalin. Franco did not do this to any significant degree, hence I think calling him "totalitarian" instead of "authoritarian" (which he doubtlessly was) uses the wrong term. Also, totalitarian leaders are often charismatic. Franco was a charismatic as a bag of potatoes. Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 16:23, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

That's not a common definition of totalitarian. The 'total' part refers to having no limits on state power, and thus on the power of those holding offices of state. Which is to say, totalitarian regimes would claim to have the moral and legal authority to force participation in their love-ins, but if they don't do so that doesn't make them something other than totalitarian. 'Authoritarian' refers to a wish to expand state power in practice and in law, but may still recognise or desire limits on that power. It also bears pointing out that 'authoritarian' is generally used to refer to people, whereas 'totalitarian' is used to refer to states (and sometimes, by extension, those state's rulers). So, no, this is not a meaningful distinction between the two that you're making a case for. Queexchthonic murmurings 16:30, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
(ec) certain Spanish historians also argue that authoritarian is the correct way to describe Franco. The mainstream view though is surely that he was totalitarian. Indeed he even described his dictatorship as presiding over the state in a totalitarian manner. My Spanish is not quite good enough, so here is the translated reference [1]--TheroadtoWiganPier (talk) 16:37, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Can it do harm to put this in as a ref thaen? In the sense that the dickface von fuckingstick himself called it that? Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 16:42, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
If you want but I don't think it is a particularly contentious point.--TheroadtoWiganPier (talk) 16:44, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
I invite you to visiting a reunion of students of political science and saying "X was (not) totalitarian" You are bound to get numerous different responses... Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 16:45, 5 November 2015 (UTC)