Talk:Irish slaves

	This Pseudohistory related article has not received a brainstar for quality. Please consider expanding the article appropriately. See RationalWiki:Article rating for more information.

On the slavery page

On the slavery page, we have indentured servitude listed as a form of slavery. Yet here, the opposite is argued. I agree indentured servitude is not slavery (at least in most cases) though it's close. We should reconcile this.Mcc1789 (talk) 03:57, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

It's a bit confusing. In discussions of modern slavery, various forms of indentured or bonded labor are included; we are told by one anti-slavery organisation that "Slavery did not end with abolition in the 19th century. Instead, it changed its forms and continues to harm people in every country in the world."[1] The fact that slavery takes different forms is important, and people can argue whether certain situations do or don't constitute slavery. --Annanoon (talk) 11:01, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

On the slavery page

To clarify, this is another page written and edited by the unpublished Liam Hogan who is now also denying and undermining the slavery of American Indians. American Indians were not always enslaved for life after wars. perhaps read something Liam? here have a go. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5654607/

"To punish local surrenderers and captives, Rhode Island adopted a complex and graduated system of local, limited-term enslavement—although they usually referred to it as servitude, perhaps to obey the technical limits of the law. Indians were sold to colonists for set terms based upon their ages. Those age 5 and under served until they were 30; ages 6–10 until age 28; ages 11–15 until age 27; ages 16–20 until age 26; ages 21–30 served for eight years; and those age 30 and above had to serve seven years or be sold.34 In Providence, over thirty of the key men involved in the defense of Rhode Island during the war—including Roger Williams—were rewarded with either a share, three-quarters of a share, or half a share of the total proceeds from the sale of Indians.35 Limited records of these sales indicate a wide range of acceptable payments and prices, including actual money (average of two pounds of silver), cotton, twenty-two bushels of corn, and “three fat sheep.”36 Newport magistrates, on the other hand, seemingly set a simple limited-term enslavement length of nine years" ^{— Unsigned, by: 2a00:23c5:94a3:1700:b9ee:28d3:1dd9:ca2a / talk / contribs}

Interesting page

Interesting page, Is this Liam Hogans page? where can I find his published peer reviewed work or do we use his personal website and random news blurbs as source for his claims.

this is his personal page right? ^{— Unsigned, by: 2a00:23c5:94a3:1700:b9ee:28d3:1dd9:ca2a / talk / contribs}

Interesting another lockdown from Liam when attempting to edit the page. sigh its all so boring Liam and crew, perhaps include some sources on who the Irish moving to the " South" were, and are we really to accept that American Indians were not also not enslaved because some Librarian would prefer to deny forced " indentures" are not slavery? ^{— Unsigned, by: 2A00:23C5:94A3:1700:B9EE:28D3:1DD9:CA2A / talk}

This BoN doesn't know what slavery is/was... ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 15:49, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

What the hell are they even trying to say? Rockford the Roe ^{boop my snoot}_{praise Oscar Wilde} 16:12, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

I'm thinking it might be Mikemikev since the BoN is from London and his history with feuding people that debunk white nationalist bullshit. Rockford the Roe ^{boop my snoot}_{praise Oscar Wilde} 16:14, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

lol : quite simple . Is forced indentured servitude slavery? If your answer is no, you and your one source used on this page assert the slavery of American Indians is not slavery. Quite simple really. Locking down a page is pathetic tbh. ^{— Unsigned, by: 2A00:23C5:94A3:1700:35EA:D288:56DF:8730 / talk / contribs}

Sigh... An indentured servant is a servant. A chattel slave is legally a non-person. These things are in the fucking names... ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 16:26, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

The RationalWiki article makes no mention of indigenous peoples, and their treatment is not relevant to the claims being addressed. Your entire point of contention is a non-sequitur. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 16:36, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

@Rockford The BoN is trying to say that the quote from Liam Hogan is silly to have in the page, on the grounds that Hogan is a librarian (and, by extension, not authoritative on the matter). Following the link to our source leads one to this page, which describes him as a librarian and historian. 𝒮𝑒𝓇𝑒𝓃𝑒 ^talk 17:24, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

He's notable enough to be quoted in the New York Times on the matter, not that this BoN would care. The indentured servant system did frankly have quite a bit of nastiness as I understand it. There is no need to weaponize the details into an incorrect term just to engage in faux-victim whataboutism (unless you want to broadcast your stupidity and racism to the world, that is)... PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 17:44, 9 November 2021 (UTC)