Talk:Liberal Interventionism

Name Change?

So, I was curious and googled "Liberal interventionism" to see if this was something PT made up, and the first reference was a mention in a different wikipedia article. The earliest reference I found to the phrase was from 2 March 2011, except for one in 25 March 2009, with the majority being from 2011/2012, and I only saw one mention of it in what I would call a legit source, being this article from LSE in May 2012. The phrase "New Jacobinism" used by Claes Ryn is basically the same idea, but his book on the subject was published in April 2011, and he's used the phrase elsewhere. Should the article be re-named "New Jacobinism"?--Token Conservative (talk) 00:33, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Seriously, how ignorant can one man be? The foreign policy doctrine of Liberal Interventionism had been around since the mid 90s at least. You clearly don't know what its about yet seem to delight in offering an opinion anyway? We will not name it 'New Jacobinism', as that name is patently absurd and silly and not widely known by people who know their shit (Which you do not seem to). Why do you still maintain the pretense of being a conservative? ProudTory (talk) 00:36, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

There's a big difference between a policy being around, and the name for the policy. The only reference to the idea of "liberal interventionism" being called such is from the LSE in May 2012, while the same idea was put out by Ryn in 2011, with references to it earlier.--Token Conservative (talk) 00:44, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

It is a well known fact that liberal interventionism has been around since at least the Nato intervention in the Balkans. It was known as such at the time and reported as such in the newspapers. I can't help it if you were still on your mothers tit at that stage, but I was making my mark on the world, I was already a grown man. ProudTory (talk) 00:46, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

The name is definitely editorialisation, whether it makes the whole thing an essay space candidate is another matter - David Gerard (talk) 21:56, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Given that the whole thing was put here as part of MC's week-long trolling campaign, Imma vape it now. If anyone wants to resuscitate it and make something of it, that's between him and his God. Theory of Practice "...and we do love you madly." 22:04, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Awkward, unorganized and partially wrong

• This doctrine of foreign policy has been around since WWI at least, starting with Woodrow Wilson in the U.S.
• Liberal intervention also extends to humanitarian aid, and is not limited to military action.
• Many agree that the Iraq War was only liberal in name, and its true causes were self-interest, at least in the case of the U.S and likely the U.K. The Coalition, of course, was probably committed to a liberal intervention, but only so far as they were deceived by the Bush administration.
• The view that intervention happens to "force" liberal democracy is expressly realist, i.e., the adoption of liberalism is in the intervener's best economic interest. U.S. foreign policy has, historically, been indifferent to worldwide democracy, if the economic benefits of its relationship to any nation can be secured without it. The author's article misses this nuance.

Blue (pester) 01:19, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Would you like to edit the article to that effect, or would you rather someone else do it?--Token Conservative (talk) 01:21, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

I suppose that technically you are correct with regards to Woodrow Wilson and all that stuff, but the doctrine as it is known today emerged in the unipolar world following the collapse of the Soviet Union. ProudTory (talk) 01:22, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

I remember that we were considering writing something on "liberal hawks," liberals that didn't embrace the chickenhawk mold but weren't necessarily pacifist either. Perhaps that would be more fitting. Osaka Sun (talk) 01:27, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Wilsonianism is just American imperialism with a smiley face. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 04:33, 2 February 2013 (UTC)