Talk:Minjok

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Template

What template would this fall under? Race? We don't have a dedicated Korean politics template (although given the flurry of Korean politics-related articles being created, we maybe should). Carthage (talk) 13:05, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm against the use of the Templelet of 'Race'. In Korea, the word 'Race' has the meaning of 인종, not 민족. Umaru16 (talk) 13:18, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Volk

The term "volk" has also been used a lot by the German far-right, notably by "völkisch" activists preceding (and then embodying) the Nazis; later on, it's seen continued usage as a term by neo-Nazis. So this comparison is not necessarily doing you much good without further distinction. Now, for a group that might use the term "volk" (though they might avoid it yet use similar concepts, not sure) yet be non-racist I may be aware of: the Germanic neopagans who have a kind of "accommodationist" point of view, i.e. their belief is that historically Germanic paganism was developed for a certain tribe (or ethnicity), but that certain aspects of it deem it compatible with non-Germanics coming into the religion later on. This is contrasted to Germanic neopagans who have a full-on racialist or discriminatory view, and also contrasted to those who really deny any sort of exclusionist roots. I can't tell you more than that, since this is about all that I know; I'm not terribly familiar with that religion. Chillpilled (talk) 23:10, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

A better translation may be the English term "folk". Carthage (talk) 23:30, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

I disagree. Folk in English and Volk in German have different meanings. Ethnic nationalism based on mainstream ethic groups in Europe after Nazi Germany took on far-right significance, but even in the 19th century, there were left-wing ethnic nationalists like Giuseppe Mazzini. Germany also had anti-French, anti-imperialist left-wing [non-racist] ethnonationalists in the early 19th century. Ethnic nationalism in South Korea is based on the anti-Japanese independence movement, not Nazism. Koreans also think that the word 'Minjok' has the same meaning as Germany's 'Volk'. Moreover, in Germany, 'Volk' is not a term used only by far-right nationalists. Center-right German nationalist Helmut Kohl, the German chancellor of the moderate conservative CDU, liked the word "Volk". Umaru16 (talk) 23:57, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

This is why scholars like B.R. Myers, who are negative about left-wing nationalism in South Korea, translate Minjok into "race". Nationalism between Korea and Japan follows the tradition of German "volk" nationalism rather than that of French "civc" nationalism, and the difference is that unlike Japan/Germany, Korean nationalism has a strong anti-imperialistic character, so it is more prominent in the left-wing than in the right-wing.

The German nationalist tradition is not always far-right than the French nationalist tradition. French fascism is weak in ethnic nationalism, and when Germany was also divided by the United States and the Soviet Union, the SPD also insisted on the unification of "volk". Nationalism is an ideology that can be shared across all political spectrums. Ethnic nationalism on the left-liberal in South Korea is similar to the radical liberal volk-based nationalists of Germany in the 19th century. We must distinguish between non-Nazi German nationalism and Nazism. Umaru16 (talk) 00:13, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

I had figured what you were trying to get at in these discussions was something similar to people aiming for German reunification after the Cold War. Similarly, would I be right to assume this ties in with opposing discrimination against North Korean defectors who made their way to South Korea? I had heard this was an issue there, and I figure the idea of emphasizing culture/ethnicity over a difference in birth-nationality would lend itself to this. Chillpilled (talk) 00:32, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

That's a good point. In addition, Korea experienced a lot of diaspora due to colonial damage and the Korean War. Therefore, from the perspective of North Korean defects and diaspora Koreans, the "state-based [South Korean] civic nationalism" promoted by the right wing will feel more oppressive than the traditional "volk-based nationalism." I think South Korean society needs both forms of nationalism to eliminate discrimination. (The problem is that English Wikipedia does not take into account this specificity of South Korea and tends to judge it based on US standards. Ethnic nationalism in the United States is an ideology of the far right, but ethnic nationalism in the South Korea is an ideology of the center-left.) Umaru16 (talk) 02:21, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Minjok and Minzoku

Do they share the same root? Carthage (talk) 09:07, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

I think soIoe bidome (talk) 13:00, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes. Minzoku=Minjok. In Japan, "Volk" was translated as Kokumin (lit. national-people) and Minzoku; unlike Minzoku (lit. people-clan), but Kokumin has no ethnic meaning. Umaru16 (talk) 21:21, 19 June 2024 (UTC)