Hebrew Gendering

Fragment of a discussion from User talk:Miekal/LQT
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ahh :P

and yah, i know, i just like assuming x role of most follower man every a lot :P

im actually interested in pre-monotheistic Israelite religion, a topic that finding out about thanks to... well... monotheism relies on finding remnants or archaeology nobody can dig.

i do know that yahweh isnt the omnipotent thing he is claimed to be; given he couldnt take the plains from the iron chariot men

il'Dictator Mikal22:24, 21 March 2012

YHWH is also very limited by some kind of unwritten rules. He cannot "find" adam in the garden. He must kill people just to get his way. he's an amoral jerk quite often, by the way.

Pre-monotheistsic isrelite religion is a trip and a half. What we "know" (informed guess, might be the best term) is pretty extensive, actually. Not that any Christians and only a few Jews will likely EVER agree with what is found. :-) God has always been one and only one.

I've always played around with (on a non published level) 'how one becomes monothesitic", and it's almost always "science" that is in my answer. We begin to understand that lightening is not a god; that rain is not a god; children come from sex, etc., and that pushes "gods" father away. and as they are more and more removed, they cease being so human, and become something more "universal". To the point that today, if there are any religious folk in science, their "god" is almost as removed from a personal god as you can get. "creator", "first mover", "part of everything" etc.

Pink mowse.pngGodot What do cats dream about?23:07, 21 March 2012

like what i believe in!

il'Dictator Mikal23:10, 21 March 2012
-)
Pink mowse.pngGodot What do cats dream about?23:15, 21 March 2012

that smile doesnt work :P

il'Dictator Mikal23:17, 21 March 2012

ohhhh hey!!!! damn wiki markup.

Pink mowse.pngGodot What do cats dream about?23:28, 21 March 2012

who is the wiki fool now!?

il'Dictator Mikal23:49, 21 March 2012
 
 

You might want to shave that hair there. I don't think you have what it takes for a mustache.

Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.00:02, 22 March 2012
 
 

"YHWH is also very limited by some kind of unwritten rules." The rules of the mind, you mean. God's powers seem to be limited by his own believers' imaginations.

Nebuchadnezzar (talk)00:21, 22 March 2012

as this ppointed out a number of times; a lot of things were limited to the followers minds: like cosmology, warfare and whatnot. Stars falling to earth? Perfectly ok when your divine seer doesn't tell you stars are bigger then earth!

il'Dictator Mikal00:32, 22 March 2012
 

speaking of the push to monotheism... in my religion... or maybe my history class i had last semester; my teacher gave out the idea that the push to monotheism was possibly related to the exile; as a crisis point where the Israelite's had to deal with the fact "Our god/gods lost, how do we deal with this" and the idea that it was go further into monotheism (from what looks like henotheism at best) or abandon Yahweh and pick the better, victorious gods.

il'Dictator Mikal00:42, 22 March 2012

It's possible, then again *anything* is possible. You have a "moment" of monothesim in Egypt that is far better documented, and it really does just kinda come out of knowwhere, as a "thinking person" says something along the lines of "wait, this is stupid. no oen has ever seen these gods, so the god must not be a bunch of little things".

Pink mowse.pngGodot What do cats dream about?00:50, 22 March 2012

you COULD say that, but ancient gods tended to be petty vindictive fuckers, best not to anger them

il'Dictator Mikal00:54, 22 March 2012

That is perhaps why it only lasted one or two generations. but the more you read about it from so-called "source" (translated, of course) the more it's an interesting perspective.

Why did Akenaten, so out of the blue, decide there is only one god. had he talked with others? was he the first? and why is his god so transcendent in a world of earthly gods.

Pink mowse.pngGodot What do cats dream about?01:06, 22 March 2012
 

Whenever people say "ancient gods," I always wonder about the implied new gods. (Pre-empting the inevitable comic book reference.) Are there any hippie-dippie gods out there?

Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.01:15, 22 March 2012

There are some interesting theories about things like "aliens", big foot and "robot worlds" that modern science fed society still needs something um... "super natural" or "mystical" or "not-understandable" so those are the new things paople have made up.

and every time we move "god" from a thing (lightening, death, the spinning of the earth, the creation of life, the creation of the earth) we still cling to this "need" for a god, we just keep making it more and more abstract. few people, really are ready to truly let go of a god. I think it's under 20% of the population, and most of them are highly educated in sciences.

Pink mowse.pngGodot What do cats dream about?01:23, 22 March 2012
Nebuchadnezzar (talk)01:30, 22 March 2012

depends on what you mean by "worship." I define myself as an athist pagan. I rather like ritual, love candles and teh symbology of lighting and extinguishing flames, etc. It's very rewarding for me to praise nature, the universe etc.

and i use ritual in my daily life. "magic" if you will, that i know is just reinforcement of my own inner strength. I light a candle in a "rite" to "lose weight" when what i really know is that i'm just focusing on what i want to accomplish and how to do it. but it feels good, calming, empowering even.

It's one reason i'm rather curt with the "there is nothing good about religion" types. There is importance, and it does fill parts of life. things science and logic and reason can't fill.

Pink mowse.pngGodot What do cats dream about?01:37, 22 March 2012

The difference is whether you know you're "doing" religion or not. But I've bloviated on that topic at length.

Nebuchadnezzar (talk)01:52, 22 March 2012
 
 

I still believe in a god because to me that makes sense, and its what i feel. i dont have any real proof besides "the universe". but it makes sense to me.

il'Dictator Mikal01:34, 22 March 2012

Nothing wrong with that.

My only issue, really, is with anti-science types. people who will say "I don't care what science says, it goes against my book".

that and anyone trying to take their book and turn it into laws.

Pink mowse.pngGodot What do cats dream about?01:42, 22 March 2012

dont really have a book :P

il'Dictator Mikal01:44, 22 March 2012

how dare you not have a book. how do you say "my way or the highway" without a book. how do you limit men's right to BJ's without a book. How do you limit children's access to math without a book!!!!

Pink mowse.pngGodot What do cats dream about?01:48, 22 March 2012
 
 

Mmmmm. In what way does it "make sense" to you? Could you elaborate?

BobSpring is sprung!08:47, 22 March 2012

Fight! Fight! Fight!

Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.09:59, 22 March 2012
 

standard "universe is complex, beautiful and everything" Argument, but naturalistic world directed by a god. I dont have much to prove it, just how i feel, possibly influenced still by YEC beliefs; sorta hard to explain.

il'Dictator Mikal15:59, 22 March 2012

It's just when you said it "made sense" I thought you might have an interesting logical argument. But, well, thanks for answering.

BobSpring is sprung!16:04, 22 March 2012

sorry to disappoint haha

il'Dictator Mikal16:30, 22 March 2012
 

Bob, almost no one at that point of the argument has anything better than "cause it's what i feel"; which should not be dismissed as lightly as many do. It is a strange thing to contemplate that everything came from nothing, or has always been.

Pink mowse.pngGodot What do cats dream about?21:21, 22 March 2012

Yes, I agree that "It's because it's what I feel" is the most common argument, and perhaps even the best one - but I live in hope of hearing a better one.

BobSpring is sprung!21:31, 22 March 2012