Reality check

Fragment of a discussion from User talk:Nx
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Is there any reason this kindergarten hour conversation is being spammed to me and everyone else who couldn't give a rat's ass?

P-Foster (talk)01:32, 30 December 2010

It's the magic of Liquid Threads, isn't it WONDERFUL??

Kels (talk)01:53, 30 December 2010

Yes, actually, it is quite wonderful, you no longer have to scour recent changes and check talk page histories to find replies to threads that interest you. It's all in one place, conveniently highlighted for you.

But it's different so it's shit.

-- Nx / talk07:02, 30 December 2010

You're mischaracterizing my opposition, which is nothing new here. After all, I'm disagreeing with you so it must be something stupid and resistant to change, right?

In this case I'm talking about the "new messages" thing. If I recall correctly, there was talk about expanding the use of this throughout the wiki, presumably on all talk pages. That means that unless everyone shuts off the "follow pages I post on" option (which is currently very useful and in fact recommended), every time they log in they'll get dozens if not hundreds of new messages (depending on how often they log in), and have to plow through all that to get to the relevant ones. As opposed to, say, going to their watchlist and checking out to see if there are updates in what interests them most.

If nothing else, that aspect is likely to be a bit intimidating/offputting in general use.

Kels (talk)15:17, 30 December 2010

I don't see how this is worse than the current system. You get a hundreds of pages on your watchlist, and you have to check the edit history of each page to see if there are new messages to the threads you are interested in, and it's hard to find new replies.

If you're getting a lot of irrelevant messages on Special:NewMessages, then that means you should unwatch some pages/threads. Granted, because of the transition you'll have pages on your watchlist that you no longer want there with lqt.

-- Nx / talk16:54, 30 December 2010

I think the problem is mostly cosmetic. First I think the "new message" text is to tightly woven with the conception of messages specifically to the user. You don't expect "new messages" to show new messages to other people. The other issue is the numerical count that keeps changing/going up. This makes it hard to ignore, and feel the need to "sort them out." The watch list does not alter the cosmetic look of the site and changes are easily ignored.

These two things combined make it feel far more intrusive than the old system.

Tmtoulouse (talk)17:04, 30 December 2010

I'll agree with that. Again, it comes back to the whole "automatically watch pages I post on", which is very useful with the present system. Watched stuff with new messages is displayed differently on the Watchlist or RC, and you can pick and choose as you like.

But say this gets put in general use as-is. Then you can no longer go "oh, that's Nx's talk page where I put a casual message a few months ago, I can ignore that". It's stuck in with everything else, and you've got to sort through it. Either that, or remove that page and others like it after every random message, which is pretty damn clunky.

One advantage that the current system does have in that sense, it occurs to me, is the edit summary system. A lot of the time it isn't used, but at least it usually shows whether it's a section of the page that I care about or not. So again, maybe there's a conversation on Nx's talk page I wanna know about, but I don't care about the programming-related ones. With RC/Watchlist I know beforehand whether to bother with the conversation. Not so much with LT, since it all gets tossed in one big "new messages" bin.

Now if there was some way to deal with issues like that, it wouldn't be much of a problem. Not sure how it'd be done, though.

Kels (talk)17:20, 30 December 2010

Replying to myself here, but I'm looking at that summary at the top of your screen. I wonder if maybe the default for LQT could be changed to a collapsed summary version (at least thread titles) when "New Messages" is hit. That'd make it easier at least to sort what conversations you want to bother with and which you can safely mark as read without further investigation. It'd certainly be an step in the right direction.

Kels (talk)17:29, 30 December 2010

You can unwatch my talk page, then watch individual threads so you only get notified of new replies to those threads. In fact this is how lqt is supposed to work, e.g. you start a thread on my talk page asking me something, you want to be notified when I reply to that thread, but you don't care about the rest of the stuff on my page.

One thing that LQT can't do is watch a page, but ignore specific threads. That would be useful on the Saloon bar for example, where you'd want to watch the page in order to get notified of new threads, but be able to ignore threads that don't interest you. I'll try to implement that.

-- Nx / talk17:31, 30 December 2010

If I may give my personal input, one of the advantages of LQT that I love is that I no longer have to scroll through 6 months of talkpage stuff to get to the newer edits. Instead, it gets bumped right to the top of my talkpage. To me, I prefer this over the old system, because it's akin to prioritization of talkpage edits based on how old they are.

Punky Your mental puke relief17:51, 1 January 2011

Now all we need is a "like" button and we're sorted!!

Scarlet A.pngpathetic17:59, 1 January 2011

Yes, it's because you are watching my talk page. It's not magic.

-- Nx / talk05:41, 30 December 2010

So, what's everyone planning on doing for New Years? I'm having a tiki party, and rum punch will be served.

Punky Your mental puke relief16:07, 30 December 2010

Bonfire on the beach, lots of music, lots of drinks, lots of... er... refreshments. Will be messy.

Ψ GremlinSermā!16:15, 30 December 2010

Oh, how I wish I could go to the beach. Instead, I'm trapped in the tundra under 4 feet of snow. Good times, good times.

Punky Your mental puke relief16:21, 30 December 2010

No worries. I'll have one for you. :)

Ψ GremlinSermā!16:42, 30 December 2010

I'm not watching Nx's talkpage, yet me "New Messages" thing at the top of page says (24) and takes me here when I click. This gives you major unfair competitive advantage over me and Human, for attention whoring. Nerds unite, or the cabal will enslave us. We have the numbers, Brothners.

~ Lumenos (talk)22:04, 3 January 2011

Yes you are, otherwise you wouldn't be getting the new messages notice.

-- Nx / talk22:05, 3 January 2011

At the time of posting that message I could make the little star turn blue or white. Now it is perma-blue. The cabal powns history Brothnerds, we must get them to write us program to make screenshots of everything. Huuumm parental monitoring software should do it. Haha! But then what if the goblins get into that as well? ~ Lumenos (talk) 22:47, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

~ Lumenos (talk)22:47, 3 January 2011

You are a very very weird person, you know?

-- Nx / talk22:50, 3 January 2011

Auugh, no way to re-edit me posts. Me powers, what have you done with them?!?!

~ Lumenos (talk)22:53, 3 January 2011

Hum but I can do this. Kinda nifty I guess.

~ Lumenos (talk)23:02, 3 January 2011

Yes there is. look harder.

-- Nx / talk23:02, 3 January 2011

Oh I sees, thanks.

~ Lumenos (talk)23:28, 3 January 2011
Edited by author.
Last edit: 09:21, 4 January 2011

This page does not appear on my watchlist yet still I have Nx' talkpage in me New Messages and the star will not go white. Could this be REaliTy?

~ Lumenos (talk)23:00, 3 January 2011

You also have to unwatch this specific thread. By replying to it, you are adding it to your watchlist.

-- Nx / talk23:03, 3 January 2011
Edited by author.
Last edit: 09:16, 4 January 2011

Please remove l337wax from ears. Star will not turn white when I click it and it is not on my "watchlist" which I can edit.

~ Lumenos (talk)23:15, 3 January 2011

Go here and see if my userpage (not my talk page) is on your watchlist. If it's not, click ignore in the header for this thread, and stop posting here.

-- Nx / talk23:20, 3 January 2011
Edited by author.
Last edit: 09:09, 4 January 2011

Your userpage and talkpage are not on my "watchlist" and the stars for these pages are currently white. I clicked ignore for this thread and the ignore link doesn't go away, neither do the "New Messages" stop linking to something appearing to be your talkpage. (I'm not trying to ignore you, just testing.) When I click New Messages I'm taken to a page with many threads I am not "observing", many of which I've never posted in and they all seem to be on "your talkpage".

~ Your faithful guineapig (talk)23:41, 3 January 2011

First of all, on Special:NewMessages, click Mark all as read. Then, click ignore AGAIN on the header of this thread. Then, don't post on my talk page.

-- Nx / talk23:45, 3 January 2011

Did that. The "ignore" link doesn't go away when I click ignore. Instead it takes me to a page with only this thread on it. Clicking the blue star on this one-thread-page does not turn the star white.

This doesn't require scripting enabled, does it?

~ Lumenos (talk)02:05, 4 January 2011

It works without javascript, but it's better with it. Regardless, the ignore button should work.

-- Nx / talk06:51, 4 January 2011

Should the ignore button change to "observe" immediately after you click it? It is definitely not doing that for me. I tried with Chromium also.

<not required reading> Chromium is what you use? ...or Chrome on Microsofties Windhoes? You don't have to answer that.

I guess I am the only one and this is just a big coincidence that it just happened to be the person who knows the sekrits of the RationalWiki voting machines. </not required reading>

~ Lumenos (talk)08:55, 4 January 2011

If you have javascript, it should change to observe.

-- Nx / talk08:59, 4 January 2011

Oh, so it is different without scripts.

I found that they are appearing in the threads section of my watchlist, where I could remove one.

~ Lumenos (talk)09:07, 4 January 2011

I found that they are (now) appearing in the threads section of my watchlist, where I could remove one.

~ Lumenos (talk)09:10, 4 January 2011

That is weird. I thought I had removed this page from my watchlist, but when I followed the link I saw it still listed there, along with a bunch of pages I never remember following.

- π01:00, 4 January 2011