User talk:PaulBustion87

Paedophilia article

Give it up, FFS, you've not convinced anyone. Why do you have such a problem with the sentiment 'people who obsess about these differences in terminology outside of an academic context generally turn out to be paedophilia apologists'? At the very least, if you think there's a point to argue about the terminology, there's no reason to remove that in the process. Queex_{chthonic murmurings} 09:58, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

I agree that people who obsess over the difference between hebephilia and pedophilia probably are pedophile apologists, because there's not much of a difference between prepubescent children and pubescent children. But I don't agree about ephebophilia, because the age range an ephebophile is supposedly attracted to, 15-19 year olds, are post-pubescent and have partially adult minds, and includes legal adults, 18-19 year olds, and even the minors in that age range, 15-17 year olds, are of the legal age for sex in some normal jurisdictions, such as France, Germany, and Austria. I don't doubt that some pedophilia apologists point out the difference, but its also a point normal people have made to. I'll defer to others' judgement, but in my opinion the reference to ephebophilia should go, because some consider it to be a made up term, since being attracted to a 17-19 year old is not really much different being attracted to a 20-21 year old, for example. PaulBustion87 (talk) 10:04, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Please keep the discussion in one place. When it comes down to it, all terms are 'made up'. In this context, even if 'ephebophilia' can (sometimes) be attraction to legal adults, it reflects a problematic attitude on the same continuum as the other terms - 'only just legal' should not be an aspirational standard in any set of circumstances. Queex_{chthonic murmurings} 10:10, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Do you really not see how being sexually attracted to a 15-19 year old is completely different from being sexually attracted to a 0-12 year old? I really don't care enough to change the article again, but if you think about it should be obvious that those are two very different things. Fine, you win. PaulBustion87 (talk) 10:15, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

I don't say it's the same, I say it's problematic in a similar way, particularly when it comes to predatory relationships. The cutoffs between the categories are somewhat arbitrary, after all. Queex_{chthonic murmurings} 11:09, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

However, the part I inserted about the World Health Organization I think should be put back in. All it said was that the medical definition of pedophilia could include attraction to pubescent children (i.e. hebephilia) so you should be pleased about that because it shows you to be right that hebephilia is a form of pedophilia. I agree with you about hebephilia being a form of pedophilia, I just don't agree about ephebophilia. PaulBustion87 (talk) 10:17, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

I don't care enough to try to argue my point that ephebophilia is more like teliophilia (sexual attraction to adults) than pedophilia, but I did restore my reference to the World Health Organization's definition of pedophilia that includes hebephilic attraction (i.e. attraction to early pubescent children) within their definition of pedophilia. That should please you since you wanted to argue that hebephilia was a form of pedophilia. I actually agree with you about that.PaulBustion87 (talk) 10:24, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

"Women pedophiles can do serious harm and the extent of the problem is hard to determine." There are such things as female pedophiles, but they are extremely rare. Even if we use the term pedophilia in its broadest sense, of sexual attraction to even a sexually mature minor(which you know I disagree with, but I'm not going to fight about anymore), I still don't think there would be many female pedophiles, because women usually prefer men their own age or older, or at least that's been my impression. Please note that I am not saying there are no female pedophiles, I'm saying that its extremely rare. It would also be rare for a woman to find a young man attractive who was in his twenties, because like I said they tend to prefer older men or at least men their own age, for the most part. PaulBustion87 (talk) 10:28, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

The 'women prefer older men' is not exactly well-supported. It's something of a self-perpetuating cliché, I think. A quick google says around 8% of paedophiles are women (modulo definitions, conviction status etc.). That's likely to err on the low side, given prevailing attitudes, but not exactly extremely rare. Queex_{chthonic murmurings} 11:09, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

I still stand by what I said. There are almost no female pedophiles. For every one female pedophile, there are at least 100 male ones. If your definition of pedophilia includes sexual attraction to/sexual acts against sexually mature 15-19 year olds, then maybe there are. But if you define pedophilia as sexual attraction to/sexual acts against prepubescent and pubescent minors, generally age 13 or younger, then there are almost no female pedophiles. I say this as a male, and a male who opposes feminism. There are some respects in which I think men are superior to women, but this is definitely NOT one of them. --PaulBustion87 (talk) 11:16, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

"conviction status", Although in popular use pedophilia refers to sexual attraction to all children, as far as I'm aware no legal system uses the term, so you can't really be convicted of pedophilia in court. We call it that in public but courts and prosecutors and judges don't. --PaulBustion87 (talk) 11:18, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Then you are standing by nonsense. Statistics say the ratio of child molesters is 1:11, at a minimum. That's actually at the low end. 1:3 is nearer the middle of estimates. Read up on wp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_child_molesters - it's well-referenced. Naturally, this is only a proxy statistic as paedophilia itself is not directly measured, but it's big assumption to assume there's such a large difference in underlying prevalence of paedophilia given these ratios of molestation. It's possible that you have a somewhat skewed perception of the prevalence of paedophilia in men - you say you 'oppose feminism', and if you hang in out in various anti-feminist fora you might have built up an idea of prevalence based on discussions in that company, and they are not exactly typical of the population at large. In particular, many prominent figures in the anti-feminist community are self-confessed sexual offenders or make creepily paedophilic statements. Queex_{chthonic murmurings} 11:24, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

I don't see how you can make a pedophilic statement. That sounds like saying, "James made a homosexual statement." It just sounds awkward. But I suppose you are trying to say that many opponents of feminism are pedophilia apologists, if that's what you are saying, I guess that is true. Sigmund Freud, for example, seems to have made statements condoning pedophilia. So does Alfred Kinsey. Freud was definitely anti-feminist, and Kinsey seems to have been. But I do not approve of pedophilia at all. My point was I view women as being inferior to men in some respects, but I see them as superior to men in one respect, that women are almost never pedophiles, they also are almost never non-pedophilic sexual predators either, and they almost are never serial killers. Women tend to have less interest in sex than men do, Alfred Kinsey stated that and he was right about that, so it makes perfect sense that they would be less likely to be pedophiles than men, because for a pedophile to have sex, he has to initiate the contact with the child, only an adult can really initiate sexual contact, and females generally do not initiate sexual contact, except in the case of female homosexuals. PaulBustion87 (talk) 11:33, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia's chief editor about sexual topics,who goes by the screen name Flyer22, has stated that almost all pedophiles are men numerous times. I agree with her about that. PaulBustion87 (talk) 11:37, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Here's what she stated about the matter,

"If you believe that pedophilia occurs equally or greater in women, then why are not more women caught or diagnosed? Simply because they are more clever than male pedophiles? They are so much more embarrassed to admit that they have sexually molested children? I mean, more men are even caught going after teenagers (not the legal kind either)...such as on To Catch a Predator (where, in fact, only men show up). And if you believe that most people would not report that they have been sexually molested by a woman, I must state that that is ridiculous. Some boys do not report it, sure, because they feel that it is a right into manhood and they feel that they are less of a man telling what happened to them. But are we saying that most boys do not tell? But even so, what about the girls? Surely, most girls would tell that they have been sexually molested by a woman...unless we are saying that they (the heterosexual girls) are so embarrassed to reveal that a woman has "been with" them sexually. But would not that go for heterosexual boys who feel embarrassed when they reveal that they were sexually abused by men? So, really, there would be just as many reports of female pedophiles/child molesters if there were as equal a number of them as men, or more. Also, what is interesting is that some female child molesters can really get caught up in viewing the child as an adult, like Mary Kay Letourneau. Most experts will tell you that she is not a pedophile, as she has shown a great interest in being with her former child victim as he is an adult. They are together and have a family. All of this and all I have studied on the issue of pedophilia tells me that most pedophiles are men, not women. Not a stereotype. Not simple popular belief. Flyer22 (talk) 17:29, 9 June 2008 (UTC)" [1] PaulBustion87 (talk) 11:41, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

There is so much messed up in your logic there that I barely know where to start. When I say paedophilic statement, I was referring to statements like 'That 13-year old looks hot, shame women stop being attractive at 18' (paraphrasing there, but that sentiment has been voiced multiple times). Kinsey pushed the field forward an awful lot, but his research was decades ago and as sexual mores are very much tied up with social attitudes, it's a large assumption to say that things won't have changed in some ways since then. Plus, of course, his methodology was highly suspect in several regards. In any case, even if are women are less likely to initiate sexual contact in general, it does not follow that there are fewer child molesters. That's assuming independence between the two traits - a very foolish assumption indeed given that we are looking at a highly unusual subgroup, one selected on the basis of sexual behaviour. You're even halfway to realising how bad an assumption it is when you remember to make an exception for lesbians. As the wp article notes, women child molesters have ample opportunity in their role as primary care givers, and as assumed trustworthy tertiary care givers for other other people's children. Queex_{chthonic murmurings} 11:43, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

I did not condone Kinsey in general, I just agreeed with him here that men are more sexual than women. Your statement, "Kinsey pushed the field forward an awful lot" surprises me, because it seems to indicate you like Kinsey. That would surpirse me because Kinsey was definitely a pedophile advocate. You seem to view me as a pedophile advocate for suggesting 15-19 year olds can have healthy sexual relations with older adults, Kinsey did not believe in the age of consent for sex as a concept. Yesterday I had walked to my library because I was bored and I was arguing with my mother, and I came across a book about Alfred Kinsey, Kinsey: Sex, The Measure of All Things by Jonathan Gathorne-Hardy, and I remembered reading that Kinsey was a pedophile advocate, and I looked the term pedophile up in the index, and the page I went to stated he thought no age was to young to have sex with an adult, not even babies,because he thought sex was merely nervous system sensations and nothing more, I was disgusted by that. So I'm kind of surprised that you would like Kinsey since you seem to have the opposite extreme view, as above you indicated that you thought even a 15-19 year old having sex with an older adult would be pedophilia. PaulBustion87 (talk) 11:52, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Kinsey did a lot of good in breaking down the 'sex is something we don't talk about, even in academia' taboo. His conclusions may not stand up, but we'd be still be stuck in the 50s mindset without pioneers like him. You brought him up, not me. Queex_{chthonic murmurings} 11:56, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

In the bestiality article, it states, "Pro-bestiality groups often make excuses related to other things which people do to animals without their consent, such as eating them, which is a prime example of the "two wrongs make a right" mentality." I actually think that's a perfectly reasonable point, not a fallacy, while the articles seems to be dismissing that point as a fallacy. If its ok to turn animals into meat and eat them, why isn't it ok to have sex with them? If we lived in a society where murder was legal, it would be illogical to still prohibit rape, it seems like a similar fallacy here. PaulBustion87 (talk) 12:00, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

If you have a problem

with the Henry Ford section in the Hitler article you need to discuss it on that talk page. Carptrash (talk) 18:31, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

part of what makes rationalwiki

different from, say wikipedia, is that we get to have our little snarky comments and include puns (or whatever) that might or might not hold up to strict linguistic analysis. Carptrash (talk) 00:04, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Henry Ford

Henry Ford's article now has a simpler name. Thanks, CamelCasePragmatist (talk) 02:46, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Category Businessmen

You added this to Henry Ford, it doesn't exist. Are you planning on creating it? Kosterortiizbrock (talk) 11:48, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

It seems you did not realize what you did- a simple mistake. I have fixed it for you for now by returning it to it's previous state. Kosterortiizbrock (talk) 12:00, 19 July 2015 (UTC)