# Conservapedia talk:What is going on at CP?/Archive68

This is an archive page, last updated 4 January 2012. Please do not make edits to this page.

## Has Bugler tired of being a parodist at last?

It seems like he's decided to go out in a blaze of right-wingnut glory with his proposal to ban atheists from CP, using so many of Andy's atheist-bashing phrases that he'd have burned out my parody meter if I wasn't already in an Andy-induced brownout. This is genius, really, because the "debate" is a perfect lens for focusing the fundie-based idiocy of the site into an easy reader for the blogosphere to link to. -SpinyNorman 09:16, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

While I was doubting that he was a parodist, over the last week or so, his sycophantic and absurdist writings have really put him over the top. It seems obvious that he's a parodist, especially with this one. - Lardashe
He has become so ridiculously apparent in the last 36 hours, just look out on the WIGO page. He sounds just like Andy in everything he says when he is not imitating Ed Poor's ass kissing. I seem to remember one of his first 5 edits was telling a user that they should agrre with Andy because it is his site and you should be thankful for him providing it. If that didn't set of alarm bells what would. Unless he is the return of TK in which case he is right in character. $\approx$$\pi$ 09:22, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
At least we know that the poe paradox is going to get a good workout. Armondikov 09:27, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Is the discussion of whether or not Bugler is a parodist really still going on? It's been confirmed. I thought everyone knew by now. DickTurpis 09:31, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

...that he isn't? Jellyfish!Let's go down the waterfall 09:35, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
No that he is a parodist. DickTurpis 09:40, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
I disagree. Jellyfish!Let's go down the waterfall 09:41, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
That last sentence might just be one of the most frightening I've ever read. If Buggerer is for real... wow... what a truly horribly piece of work he is. --PsyGremlinWhut? 09:50, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Do you mean "Eliminate them, and our progress will accelerate"? Yes, that's a bit odd. Jellyfish!Let's go down the waterfall 09:56, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Didn't he also use the phrase "great leap forward". Pure parody gold. ħuman 00:38, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Do you mean "odd" as in "something a parodist might write"? Bjones 10:14, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
It's a good thing, because now if someone is banned by him, others will start complaining of his bigotry. That of course will bring more lulz. NorsemanWassail! 10:34, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
That's a really amusing piece of parody, in the first paragraph he says what anybody would say of Andy, then he starts channeling him and spouts his version of liberal debate tactics, then he uses Ed's "this is a serious project, back to work slaves contributors and you better like it" lines with the cold-blooded tone of Karajou, Crocoite or TK, and the "the truth will set us free!" at the end is the icing on the cake.
If he receives the tacit approval of all major sysops, Bugler will be my favorite parodist for ever. NightFlarei haz a talk page. 10:46, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
That's the genius in Bugler's tactics - he uses the Conservapedia version of Mad Libs to assemble his posts ("I need a noun, two verbs, an unrelated analogy, and an 'xxxx values' link") to create edits that are the distilled essence of all the sysop quirks put together. -SpinyNorman 11:01, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

I really think he's for real, what else can he possibly be waiting for? Unless he(?) justs wants to insert fascist ideals so it can be mocked, then he/she is a masochist for putting up with this kind of shit. That would a seriously dark character to get involved with. Once again Poe's law, you just don't know... δλερνερ διαλέγομαι | συνεισφέρω 11:34, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Multiple fun things here:
• Bugler seems to be using the word "edifice" a lot recently. Perhaps he just learned the word?
• His rant has so much unintentional irony that you couldn't write better comedy. Hearing him talk about how atheists don't really debate and how they shut out the logical and obvious is remarkable.
Well, Bugler doesn't have precedents on his side, last time somebody (namely TK) openly blocked somebody for being an atheist, Andy quickly condemned the act (and made the amusing remark that block messages don't reflect site policy), it's the only time I can remember from the top of my head where Andy openly stood up against one of his goons regarding site policy. NightFlarei haz a talk page. 12:59, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

### Hey, Bugler

I don't care if you're a deliberate parody or not--either way, your deeds have earned you the title of Discordian Pope With A Side Of Fries. You can pick up your Pope Card here. (So can anyone else who wants one.) --Gulik 17:09, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Hey, thanks, I like this very much. (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 18:37, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

##  Shun the nonbeliever! Shuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun!

I actually like that suggestion. I mean... it's basically nothing new. Atheists don't agree with Andy or the other right-wing sysops, and people who disagree with the sysops get banned. So let's streamline it! Let's make it official: Conservapedia does not allow atheists to provide any sort of input. See? It's awesome!

The added benefit is that the parodists will be able to fully drive the project to the edge without any pesky non-parodists who might out them early. They could finally build the ultimate fundamentalist encyclopedia trainwreck!

And enforcing it should be amusing, too! I see it now: The Bible Test. You will have to apply for membership, and you will be asked to answer ten YEC/right-wing questions about the Bible. You know, like "Give at least two key passages that endorse the right to bear arms", "How does geology prove that the Great Flood really happened as described in the Bible?" or "Should we forgive liberals?" ("...uh... yes?" - *BEEEEEP* "WRONG, BITCH! JESUS HATED LIBERALS!"). --Sid 09:04, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Cue Fox explosion in reaction to this in 3...2...1...--Jdellaro 11:39, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
I'm not offended by that, I'm sure it was written out of bitter sarcasm... δλερνερ διαλέγομαι | συνεισφέρω 11:43, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Oh, I didn't mean to suggest that I found it offensive. But I know Fox doesn't handle well any references to the Holocaust outside of directly discussing the Holocaust. Frankly, I think it's an excellent analogy, but comparing CP to the Holocaust is sure to blow a fuse in Fox's brain. --Jdellaro 11:51, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

This actually crosses the "Poe's Law" gray zone completely, and has emerged out the other side. If a new user signs their name under ==Yes==, no matter how artfully they phrase their support, they're likely to be instantly viewed as a parodist. Only established users dare agree with Bugler. I think this has clearly crossed a new threshold. --Toiretni 11:59, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Well, I guess Bugler won that argument. CorryYou can always tell a Milford man. 16:55, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

## Sophistry is alive and well and living on Conservapedia

I'm almost astounded at some of the "logical arguments" coming from CP in the last fews days. From Bugler's liberal=mentally ill=eugenicist=abortion to Pakhyongshin's atheists can't use computers, it's pretty mind boggling. Or would be if they weren't parodists, anyway. I wonder if conservatives are Nazis? Let's see, conservatives love guns, guns were used to kill Jews in the ghettos, conservatives must like killing Jews, therefore conservatives are Nazis! Add to that the similarities between Conservapedians and the leaders of the Third Reich, and voila! I did it. Irrefutable proof. DickTurpis 10:14, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Pakhyongshin's comments are particularly distasteful. Can you picture a leather clad Pink Andy, surrounded by Pak, Buggerer, Koward, Jinx hi fuck-head! and one or two others. Cue Dave Gilmore and you've got a film. --PsyGremlinWhut? 10:24, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
I think Pakhyongshin's comments are beautiful, once they are recognized as a form of art. Bjones 10:37, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Look guys and gals, I really think that we should rein in our activities. Our socks are obviouslly getting out of hand and as an old-school RWer we shouldn't be WIGOing our own socks activity. GenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 12:04, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

I agree.... we decided a long time ago not to WIGO obvious parody and vandalsim unless it was really really really worth the effort. These comments seem pretty obvious. SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 12:11, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
With the exception of Bugler though. If he gets outed and booted, I'd just be happy. Don't take it personally Bugler. (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 12:55, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Amen to that δλερνερ διαλέγομαι | συνεισφέρω 12:59, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
What do you think: http://army-bugler.stumbleupon.com/ ? Seems to fit except that I have an impression that he is British. — Unsigned, by: 131.107.0.74 / talk / contribs
Even though they don't enfoce the "use your name" rule for trusworthy editors, googling Dominic Bugler is interesting.--Antifly 17:18, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Now that could explain a lot! Well found Antifly!!   ContribsTalk 17:25, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
For the non-Brits out there: an ASBO is an Anti Social Behaviour Order. A sort of curfewish court order.   ContribsTalk 17:28, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Is Bugler definitely British? weaseLOIdbite me 17:30, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Yup!   ContribsTalk 17:34, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Sorry, and not outing any sock, this Bugler is TOO smart. His words are too full of cross-references. He is the perfect "intelligent parodist" when he doesn't go too far. I hope they checked that his IP address is really from the UK, otherwise I would suspect a British emigrée to the States. (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 17:37, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Don't suppose anyone'd like to burn a sock putting this on his talk page?   ContribsTalk 17:43, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
That page doesn't seem to work. (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 18:29, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

I think you're barking up the wrong tree there. http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=British_National_Party&diff=467371&oldid=467186 Fretfulporpentine 17:48, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

You're probably right Fret (may I call you Fret?), the BNP's too left wing and irreligious for Bungler.   ContribsTalk 17:57, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
They are National Socialists, after all. Fretfulporpentine 17:59, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Any sock has one moment of weakness. (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 18:28, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Pakhyongshin, my dear comrade, when you write parody you have to TRY! First of all: who, for the love of Brian, misspells the name "George"? Second: Have you read Animal Farm? The animals don't use computers in it, not to mention that when it was published (1945) personal computer wouldn't be invented yet for a few decades. δλερνερ διαλέγομαι | συνεισφέρω 21:45, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

A) Everyone needs to back off Bugler. That wo/man is a genius. Very clever work. Don't fuck it up for him/her. CP is an infinitely better place with Bugler alive and ranting. I lie in bed awake at night thinking of how great his/her finale will be. B) I really detest the recent trend towards people WIGOing their own socks work. It's lazy, arrogant, boring, predictable. If your work is good enough for WIGO, rest assured one of the idiots around here will see it. But to slap some graffiti up over there, then 30 secs later point to it from here with a big "Ooooh, Get HER!" is appallingly masturbatory. Have some respect for the art of wandalism - please, don't do it. DogP 23:08, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Have people been WiGOing their own socks? I haven't noticed. Do we count WiGO talk as WiGO? In any case, unlike with Bugler, I don't know if Packyoungshins is a parodist, I just assume that anyone that ridiculous must be. I'm not too worried about outing anyone, as they clearly don't take what we say here seriously; we no longer have to say "I wonder if Bugler is a parodist" and can come out and say "yes, it's been confirmed that Bugler is a parodist" because they clearly aren't about to ban him. Though I do wonder when they will wise up. DickTurpis 23:46, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Personally, I think Bugler MUST be a parodist. His latest work - a user signs up and makes a comment about how, going by the very essay the Talk page is about, CP teaches close-mindedness. Bugler responds by doing something else that is on the list of ways to 'teach close-mindedness' (censorship of opposing views). Zmidponk 07:36, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
It's stuff like that makes me think he isn't a parodist. Certainly he's doing a fine job of making CP look ridiculous, but I don't think it's intentional. When he just blocks instead of bothering to reply to critical posts, it doesn't seem what somebody out to parody the cite would do. Also, if he's trying to undermine CP, blocking people who criticise it this quickly would seem a particularly hypocritical way of doing it. As for Packyoungshins, I'm sure he's for real - just has some naive opinions and a bizarre grasp of English literature. weaseLOIdbite me 13:01, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Awww, Bugler was too close to becoming my favorite parodist forever and ever, but Ed just disagreed. NightFlarei haz a talk page. 06:52, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

##  Cheese

What's all this moon with cheese stuff? Is it a clue? Bugler at 19/08 0657 "...that the moon is made of cheese", and just before that on here: JeevesMkII 20:06, 18 August 2008, "Prediction: Moon will be made of cheese" 81.129.11.137 13:55, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

It's a well attested fact that the moon is indeed made of cheese. weaseLOIdbite me 14:25, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
... and if ever someone gets there (they lied it was all done on Warner Bros. back lot!) we'll have all the Stilton we want - Hoorah!!!   ContribsTalk 16:44, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

I'm sorry, Susan, but Stilton benefits from EU 'protected designation origin' and can only come from a licenced cheesery located in the counties of Derbyshire, Leicestershire and Nottinghamshire (there are six). If anyone tries to palm you off with Lunar Stilton, report them at once to your local Trading Standards Office. Fretfulporpentine 16:51, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

But wouldn't stilton-style (note the lowercase "s") cheese aged 4.6 billion years (or 6000 years, for you YECers out there) be awfully hard? In the frozen wastes of space the creamery texture would likely turn out to be rock-like. CЯacke® 16:58, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
I believe your ridiculous objections are all neatly answered by the documentary Wallace and Gromit: A Grand Day Out. --JeevesMkII 17:03, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Also: the moon is a part of North Notts, so that's one out of the way. The Space Cling Film (which permeates the universe as dark matter) would have protected the cheese from dessication.   ContribsTalk 17:07, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
If God made the Moon out of cheese, wouldn't it be Herefordshire Stinking Bishop? Totnesmartin 17:13, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
IF god made the moon out of cheese, especially smelly cheese, it would mean God was French. Or at least the French are teh Chosen Ones. --Waiting for Godot 18:03, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Have you smelled Stilton?   ContribsTalk 18:10, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Get real. I live in teh US. you know K.R.A.F.T, and other benign yellow codified milk products masquerading as "cheese". I'd love to try some, though. wanna send me some? --Waiting for Godot 18:15, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
It needs a special licence to import into the US - I believe you can get it there - I recall Kels (in Canada ) mentioning it.   ContribsTalk 18:25, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
One needs to stay out of stores that have either a "Piggly" or a "Wiggly" in the store name. Expect to pay about $11.00/pound, though at "Sam's club" it goes for$8 or thereabouts. Try some gorgonzola first though...that will be easier to find and not quite as stinky. If you find you do not like gorgonzola then Stilton is way beyond your culinary pale. (I find the two cheeses very similar as to taste but Stilton has the added advantage of having a superior texture...it being creamy smooth; the gorgonzola has a crumbly, gritty texture. Stilton is a acquired taste. It smells like old sweatsocks. I hated it the first time I tried it. If you do get some and find you can't stand it try mixing it down with some cream cheese then use it as a dip for corn chips. CЯacke® 18:41, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Hehe, well, i've stayed on and off in France (this being the native home of my hubby, and my second country of residency) so i've had stinky cheese and love it. :-) Just not Stilton. But I shall endevor to find it. mixing it as a dip, hum? That would be tasty, even if you love the smell.--Waiting for Godot 10:14, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Wait... if the Moon is made of cheese, does this mean there are no Clangers? Say it ain't so! I can't afford to have another pillar of childhood belief come crashing down. --PsyGremlinWhut? 18:29, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

I got mentioned above, so I should chime in. Yeah, you can get Stilton here. Heck, you can get Hunter and Five Counties here too, which is pretty sweet. I had some Irish Cashell blue the other week that was pretty sweet on cracked pepper crackers. Probably gonna be another week and a half before I'm by the cheese shop, though. --Kels 19:25, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

I think we can all agree that the moon would be made of American cheese, because we found it first. CorryYou can always tell a Milford man. 19:37, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Ugh, that explains why nobody's been back in 36 years. --Kels 19:43, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
That was a... classy answer :-D (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 19:51, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Touche. CorryYou can always tell a Milford man. 20:40, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

##  Bugler crazy ranting

Not sure if this is documented already, but bugler's ranting/sermonising in the 'ban atheists' debate has reached new heights of craziness, especially this, this, this and this. It seems that atheists are not only illogical but "sad, bereft, damaged people" and "poor, impoverished people, howling impotently at the face of God". weaseLOIdbite me 18:18, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Apparently you can get drunk off Kool-Aid. But what about crackers, can you get drunk on crackers? --Toiretni 20:38, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
I love this debate. Various socks and parodists all arguing with each other, including such leading lights as Christopher Hitchens on one side and Silvio Berlusconi on the other. Essentially, all activity on Conservapedia now is simply parody. --JeevesMkII 20:41, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Meh. I'm bored of hearing all this conjecture about socks and parodists. As a rational wiki, isn't it better to assume good faith? - I.E. that people on CP actually mean most of the crazy shit they say; rather than looking for ulterior motives. weaseLOIdbite me 20:59, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
1) They only way to AGF when reading RationalWiki is to assume that we do not mean most of the crazy shit that we say.
2) Okay, let's say we become totally serious in our approach to Conservapedia. But two minutes later, the ground rules of evidence and logic have changed yet again, and our previous serious approach has to be thrown out the window. --Toiretni 21:05, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
I agree that a serious approach must sometimes be defenestrated.  ;-) I'm not suggesting being totally serious - I think the crazy shit on CP is actually funnier (& also scarier) if we assume that it is genuine, rather than people deliberately playing for laffs. weaseLOIdbite me 21:21, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Well, my sock got banhammered, <sigh> time to get another one. Howdya guess I named him after Hitchens? Is it that obvious? δλερνερ διαλέγομαι | συνεισφέρω 21:33, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
I'm exposing my wiki ignorance right now, but how did you get found out? I'm assuming that your IP is blocked. Can proxies get sniffed out? CorryYou can always tell a Milford man. 21:44, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Nice sockery, DLerner - especially your "I'm not offended by that" comment further up this page on RW. weaseLOIdbite me 21:48, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
I'm on a temporary block at CP right now two weeks. (It was for calling Andy an idiot in a userbocks on my castle. someone ratted me out asking "How do you report personal attacks". Though I expect any day now to get a permablock. Thanks for the compliments Weasley, I'm glad you enjoyed my awesome sock puppet powers. δλερνερ διαλέγομαι | συνεισφέρω 21:54, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
You where banhammed by Jinx hi Jinx! he must have been reading again. $\approx$$\pi$ 22:19, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
No, it was by Karagoy δλερνερ διαλέγομαι | συνεισφέρω 22:27, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Oh well there goes you and half your cities IP addresses. $\approx$$\pi$ 22:29, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Weaseloid I find the idea "lets just pretend its true because it is better that way" a trifle illogical. In classic Andy style I am now going to drag you away from the point but bear with me. Your argument borders on the arguments used by anti-atheist with there "atheism caused the holocaust where as Christians would not do this". This says nothing about the truth of atheism it is just saying that you should not be an atheist as the world would be a better place. In simpler logic we have proposition A, the world would be better if A was true, therefore is true/we will treat it as true. This does happen is some legitimate ways such as number theory papers that start with assume the Riemann Hypothesis is true, which we now we will have to discount if is proven false. Now I have stretched a bit as the existence of God is a perfectly fine debatable issue, users on CP with names taken form prominent people on the other hand are clearly socks. $\approx$$\pi$ 22:29, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
I did not say "let's just pretend its true because it is better that way" - I said let's assume people mean what they say unless we know otherwise. There are lot of comments like the one below saying Bugler is a parodist. Well, maybe the rest of you all know something I don't about this. Certainly I've seen no evidence of it. weaseLOIdbite me 06:45, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

Bugler's purpose as a sock/parodist is to make Conservapedia a hostile place, to get Andy to go to new heights of idiocy, and to make Conservapedia a parody of itself. So far, he is doing a wonderful job. Such ranting and blocks only make it harder for new people to get started. While he is occasionally blocking the sock, he is also hitting a number of honest contributors too and making everyone else less wanting to write something. Master puppeteer, keep up the good work. --Shagie 22:17, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Jon Stewart on The Daily Show says many (usually obviously) outrageous things, even though he's a stickler for the truth. Just because you [citation needed] in your realistic analyses doesn't mean you can't break into humor mode sometimes. At most, you could argue for making the two more clearly distinct. But arguing for killing the humor? No. --Toiretni 09:20, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
This guy can walk through fire, I swear! NorsemanWassail! 21:10, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

##  Ed "cutting edge" Poor

I'm not sure this is WIGO worthy, but I thought it funny that Ed puts an editor on "probation" who was permabanned two weeks ago. --Arcan ¡ollǝɥ 21:10, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Here's Ed violating someones castle. "All contributers to Conservapedia are equal, but some more equal than others" δλερνερ διαλέγομαι | συνεισφέρω 21:36, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

HaHaHA! This edit by Lemonpeel is classic. $\approx$$\pi$ 21:48, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

## Andy's tangents

Gotta love this. "Ok, so I used the wrong title, but now will you admit Obama isn't a professor either." The man is truly a marvel.
Update Andy is losing it. When the original poster rightfully goes "huh?", Andy responds with another bizarre reply, then scuttles off to update Liberal bias. Extra lulz - starting your reply "Ok fine" is a "conciliatory manner"

If somebody wants to WIGO this, go ahead,I'm not feeling lulzy today. --PsyGremlinWhut? 10:00, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

I had WIGO'd it, and just fixed it to add the context from the Talk page, which explains the lulz better. --SpinyNorman 10:43, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Good man, Spiny. It's one of Andy's stranger moments I think. I also think the banhammer countdown has started for Jarredr.--PsyGremlinWhut? 10:49, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
His obsession with Obama is starting to leak into every discussion lately, it seems, like the "Dr. Phyllis" affair the other day. I think someone's about to learn the consequences of defying the Lord of Tangents... --SpinyNorman 10:52, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Tangents intersect the curve at one point and may even intersect another part of the function, I think jumping at a non-intersecting circumference is a better metaphor. NightFlarei haz a talk page. 10:57, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Offtopic, slightly, question. What exactly is Andy's obsession with Obama being a Professor at the University of Chicago (or his other pet "he's not a professor", Hitchens, i think). UC has released a statement saying "HE WAS A PROFESSOR HERE". don't you think UC would KNOW??? What is andy's point? (I did read somewhere a "new" definition of "professor" defined by CP, and not the universities in question).--Waiting for Godot 10:59, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Same shit as Andy's questioning whether he was born in Hawaii or not, or claiming that one's name makes you a false Christian if it's not WASP-y enough. He really, really doesn't like Obama, and will go to any extreme to take shots at the man. What's eating him up inside, I suspect, is that Obama's a self-made man who went to the same University, and accomplished far more in the same period of time as a damned liberal than conservative-Andy ever has or will, despite assistance from his mom at every turn. Obama's sucess is a refutation of every liberal-xxx stereotype he wants to put out there. Okay Andy, you can go back to your Church basement now and resume teaching your class in bias U.S. History... --SpinyNorman 11:07, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Apart from Obama being an obvious commie, here it is in a nutshell. They are both my age (actually, both slightly younger). Meaning... I am perhaps going to be older than the next president - perfect fodder for a mid-life crisis, wouldn't you say? Now, Andy was in the same law school as Barack way back when - they both edited the Harvard Law Review - Andy actually knows Barack - and Obama was the president of HLR. Now BO is running for the arguably most powerful public position on the planet, and the subject of adulation and admiration by millions of people. AS, on the other hand, teaches some high school kids Bad History and runs a blog that is the underbutt of the innertubes. This makes for some serious jealousy-type issues. ħuman 17:01, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
(EC)Well, some of Andy points are:
• You're a liberal, therefore Obama was not a professor
• Liberals like to claim those they support are a professor, therefore Obama was not a professor
• Not all UC big-bosses have signed and swore a statement with witnesses and videocameras watching and sent directly to Andy saying that Obama was a professor, therefore Obama was not a professor
• Webster defines professor as "a teacher of the highest academic rank in a college or university", therefore Obama is not a professor
• Some university in Australia doesn't consider Obama's title as that of a professor, therefore Obama was not a professor
Some of them were actually used for Richard Dawkins so whatever. NightFlarei haz a talk page. 11:12, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

(undent)

The irony that just hit me in all this is that Andy loves to bash "professor values", yet spends a tremendous amount of energy making sure the title doesn't apply to Obama. Go figure. --SpinyNorman 11:16, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

In short because Andy hates Dawkins he was pushed into redefining professor in a convoluted, fungible and bizarre way. Sensing the frailty of this definition he has gone into attack dog mode at every reference to professor and also gone to great pains to point out who deserves ( He and his mother so far) the title according to his personal definition ( which he represents as the obvious and correct definition). In other words this is Andy's microcosmic version of Newspeak. Exasperate me!Sheesh!Not the most impressive contributor here 11:20, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
This is a response to SpineyNormanDINSDALE! Above: I think you got it exactly right. Andy had every possible privelage growing up: He was born into money, went to great private schools (I think) probably had personal tutors and got into Harvard via their weird Rich man's Affirmative Action program. Obama, on the other hand, came from a much lower class, had to support himself and made it into Harvard via his own merits (Affirmative Action or not, it's not as if any Negro off the street gets into Harvard just so they have color) and look where they are: One is a succesful senator from Illinois and the presumptive Democratic Candidate for President, the other failed miserably in his run for congress (Just like mama) and is reduced to being a retained lawyer for a quack group and the Nasally Voice of the insane right wing. Andy hates Obama and Dawkins because they're better than him and he knows it. SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 11:37, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
I think almost everything Andy does is a reaction to perceived slights based on disparities like this. His place as a construct of momma versus others who have done more with less. This is the engine that drives Andy. Watch for it Exasperate me!Sheesh!Not the most impressive contributor here 12:00, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Absolutely. Notice how he "works" primarily as an educator, but because he didn't do the degree work to be a qualified professor of anything at an accredited school, he makes a living teaching homeschoolers so he can avoid scrutiny of his credentials or the academic quality of what he teaches. He then takes out his self-disappointment by creating the slur of "Professor Values" - not "Teacher Values" - because of his hatred of people who achieved what he didn't. --SpinyNorman 12:10, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

## Ken Missed one

Here's a new bullet-point for his list of the causes of homosexuality - demonic possession (note last sentence of the second paragraph). --SpinyNorman 10:58, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

My favorite line: "The thin end of the wedge (soft drugs, yoga for relaxation, horoscopes just for fun and so on) is more dangerous than the thick end because it is more deceptive - an evil spirit tries to make his entry as unobtrusively as possible." Wow, the evils of yoga. --SpinyNorman 11:01, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Among the causes of homosexuality is a contagious demonic factor. -- my god, so being gay is not only contageous, it's passed from demons. ACK. what am i going to do if i catch teh gay??????--Waiting for Godot 11:02, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Call me immediately --75.73.110.47 12:09, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
(if you want lessons - call me:   ContribsTalk)
I'd say you'd have caught a case of demonic bowel syndrome, but I get that every time I eat at Taco Bell... --SpinyNorman 11:10, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Maybe you should try Mexican food instead? --Kels 11:18, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Yup we've all got devils in our bloomers just waiting to meet up via some pre marital or gay-on-gay sex. They spread via saliva or something. QED demons cause STDs. Exasperate me!Sheesh!Not the most impressive contributor here 11:23, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Oh shit, I just started doing some Yoga and I like it.... I'll be taking that wide stance any day now. SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 11:37, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
I don't think the fundies have any preference in the case of pre-marital gay sex..... They pretty much just hate whoever the book tells them to (this month) SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 11:43, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Was that a Larry "I have a wide stance" Craig reference? If so, I like it! Bjones 11:50, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Yes, yes it was a Larry Craig reference.... I thought the dumbest political talk I ever heard was "That depends on your meaning of the word is" from Bill, but that was something special. SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 11:57, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Should you be talking about the "thin end of the wedge" in reference to an article about homosexuality? There might be children listening! Mick McT 11:56, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
And lord knows, the children are better at discerning fact from fiction than the adults. (scurries off to find her lysol. Lysol is clearly from god, as it kills the sex deamons.--Waiting for Godot 12:31, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Kids: Don't think that the above implies you should use anything sharp near those delicate tissues. Be safe, use something blunt and smooth. --Toiretni 13:13, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Never tried Lysol in that manner. Interesting! NorsemanWassail! 13:30, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Just be careful where you spray it. I'd argue for the bed toilet seat. I suspect that it might be a might bit unpleasant if you were to attack the sexual "a-gay deamons" on your flesh. Unless that's "your thing"... ;-)--Waiting for Godot 13:34, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
It just might be... NorsemanWassail! 13:43, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

(unindent) Maybe if Larry Craig claimed that he caught gay from the toilet seat we would have believed him. Also, some of the imagery in this article would make for great Pride parade floats. CorryYou can always tell a Milford man. 16:27, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

## Active CPers

Where's that list of active CPers that someone worked so hard on? Is it time for an updated version? I'd be curious to see who's active there and who isn't. DickTurpis 14:00, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

This one, you mean? --PsyGremlinWhut? 14:28, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
That's it. Thanks. I was using the wrong search phrasing. Anyway, is it about time for an update (I'm looking at you, Genghis)? I, for one, am curious what it looks like now. DickTurpis 14:42, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
ooh! That's pretty. Who knows how to make a new one? Exasperate me!Sheesh!Not the most impressive contributor here 15:12, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

## Interesting Find

A while back, Andy mentioned one of his "Conservapedia campus" talks would be taking place in June in Michigan, and there was no subsequent mention I could find. I stumbled across this today, which may explain why (note the attendance). --SpinyNorman 16:49, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

...wow. I hope this number doesn't include Andy and whoever was present just to count how many people attended. --Sid 17:03, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
However, I do enjoy the description in the headline: "Ultra Conservative & Activist" - Very fitting, and it contrasts nicely with his usual and seemingly innocent self-description as an "educator"! --Sid 17:07, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

Apparently, the room was very dark: Another attendance estimate --Sid 17:12, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

I so woulda gone, had I known.-- -PalMD --4 out of 5 doctors recommend RW for gas pain 17:12, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Yes, but would you have faked a British accent and introduced yourself as Bugler? Bjones 17:18, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Not only would I have gone, I would have brought a video camera and try to get Andy on tape babbling about the importance of Defensive weapon of guns. SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 17:20, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
I'd have gotten 10 friends to come, and had all of us wear name tags saying "Hi, My Name is AmesG". --SpinyNorman 17:26, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
...that idea is so full of win! :D --Sid 17:28, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
1 or 2 people from this ronpaul site thing went. The others who went were the homeschoolers and their parents... maybe a few CPers, maybe me, maybe. =.= Candlewick 17:37, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Gotcha - the count was probably just an auto-tally of meetup members who said they attended, as opposed to the actual attendance. Just for curiosity, how many people would you say were there? --SpinyNorman 17:45, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
There were roughly 30 students last semester in Andy's class. Take 1/4 of that and you have the dedicated students * 2 = attendance. I'm just guessing. I didn't go because I wasn't invited/I had "work". =.= Candlewick 17:50, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
When I saw the estimated attendance matched the number who registered on the site I figured that it was an automatic count and not accurate, but do you mean to tell me his homeschool students attended? Wouldn't that entail flying to Michigan from New Jersey? Seems less than completely plausible to me. I can't see anyone spending hundreds of dollars to go see a lecture given by a person you get a lecture from for free each week. DickTurpis 21:47, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

I haven't noticed Andy slipping any "conferences lead to atheistic libral close-mindedness" type remarks into his ramblings yet. Perhaps the conference is still on!--Antifly 18:50, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

## Cocoa bean

Since I'm bored, and I really can't stand Kenservative, I just thought I'd bring attention to one of my favoritest CP articles evar, Cocoa bean. Be sure to check out the history of that gem. Smyth 17:35, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

Just wonderful! Thanks. (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 17:44, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
The early history for Ecuador is pretty good too. Smyth 17:48, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Beautiful. Absolutely. Beautiful. Bjones 17:51, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
At a random tangent, the meerkat article is fantastic. weaseLOIdbite me 17:54, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Holy wow... Smyth 18:00, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Damn. There is proof that none of us need that "new fangled edu-ma-cation". all we need to know about cocoa is that it is for chocolate. (ok, wait, given the |Chocolate God, that probably *is* all we need to know). Maybe we could do an article "Peanut butter" "Peanut butter is made from peanuts. The End."--Waiting for Godot 18:06, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
pt two "Meerkats also use their hand-like paws to communicate with each other using a form of sign language." WHAT THE FUCK???????? (some days, you just have to spell it out, you know)--Waiting for Godot 18:08, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
What the? "While most Christians are neutral on the subject, many believe that all contact with meerkats should be avoided because of biblical strictures." hahahahaha Ace McWickedwhisky 18:08, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Yeah. It's been approved by Karajou & Andy though (see history). weaseLOId~ 18:10, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Exactly. Also Smyth's other suggestion, Ecuador, is wonderful. I like this edit by Andy (you have to read the WHOLE article to appreciate it). (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 18:11, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
"Reverted edits by BenWatson (Talk); changed back to last version by Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV" <-- This edit summary should have set off a few hundred alarm bells, I think XD --Sid 19:02, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Well, Duh. they are unclean. and I'm sure most ancient israelites came into contact with them daily, so they could show the importance of this prohabition. by the way, pigs ARE unclean. why do christians play football, much less on sunday????????--Waiting for Godot 18:14, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

HAHAHAHAHA The Ecuador article is priceless!! Hahahaha. Ace McWickedwhisky 18:16, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

I fully enjoyed this one : Ecuador is a country in northern South Africa[ citation needed]. You need a citation to say Ecuador is in Africa? South, North or France?--Waiting for Godot 21:29, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Even better is the number of revisions/corrections/reversions that went on around it!   ContribsTalk 21:38, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

OMG, thank you Smyth! Those cp:Ecuador diffs are priceless! (Fans of Moral Orel may recognize the original editor; as a side note, that was back when CP allowed punctuation in usernames and all the homoskollars were doing it.) I don't know who Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV was, but I'd like to buy him a drink. --Marty 00:09, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

"Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV", or just "Ed", is a main character on the anime Cowboy Bebop, and wow, Moral Orel & Conservapedia - perfect! --SpinyNorman 00:51, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

##  Nice pawning

Once again, DinsdaleP presents facts. What will happen now? Will they ignore him, call him a lying liberal, block him, ask for evidence? (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 18:56, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

You forgot the "Derail topic by asking completely unrelated questions" method Andy used in the entire "Dr. Schlafly" trainwreck. --Sid 19:04, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
"Wow DinsdaleP, you're clueless. Obama cleary doesnt want his records scrutinized. Your defense of Obama no matter what is typical of liberals but we are not fooled here" Or something like that. Ace McWickedwhisky 19:13, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Actually, the real fun was off to the side. I had suggested to Jpatt that he pass on the DNC-protester article as a news item, but he went ahead with the minor fix while missing the bigger point that the 2004 RNC convention had this kind of temporary holding cell too (and it was even worse). So after repeating the point on Main:Talk, I thought I'd be constructive, and suggested on their Wikiproject:News page that they screen proposed stories more, to avoid coming off badly. Anyone want to guess at Croc's response? --SpinyNorman 20:20, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Oh, and I'm betting on something like "Dinsdale, you're clueless or suffering from Liberal Denial if you think that Obama, like Lenski, is actually in favor of releasing the raw data to the public. If anything, this is another Liberal Trick to remove anything embarrassing from the records. You can choose to practice your Liberal Obfuscation elsewhere, or you can open your mind and embrace the truth. If you choose the latter, I know, with 95% certainty, that you will probably experience mental health for the first time in your life." --SpinyNorman 20:34, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
A pretty straightforward, Sit down and STFU, LIB!
.... And that is exactly why Dinsdale made the suggestion in the first place. His next response is just hilarious. "Fuck you, liberal. Thanks for being respectful, but fuck your scheming ways!" NorsemanWassail! 21:57, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
My favorite part of the whole exchange was the admission that these new stories already do go through, umm, rigorous quality screening by liberal-hating headline-skimmers qualified sysops. --SpinyNorman 22:45, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

##  Crystal Ball(s)

By looking in his magic mirror Andy can tell that English private schools are heathen": I doubt private schools in the U.K. are "based firmly on Christianity." Rather, I'm confident that the private schools in the U.K. are as leftist as public schools in the U.S.--Aschlafly 13:56, 20 August 2008 (EDT)". It;s been WIGOed but its gotta be SEEN.   ContribsTalk 20:24, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

I dunno, mine had daily prayer in an assembly... Andy's wet dream, eh? ħuman 20:28, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

##  The "Ed Poor" confusion

I think part of the joke is that Joseph G (?) means wikipedia, not us. Repeat, not us. ħuman 21:56, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

I dont know man, it does say "The site we dont mention" and if it were wikipedia then andy wouldnt just whitewash it. Ace McWickedwhisky 21:57, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Think Joseph's just a NOOB. Ed's also Moonying about on Wikiversity.   ContribsTalk 21:59, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, mentioning Eduardo in the first place gives a stern hint. Why not Fox, or Jinx? Would've been better if he tried to report Koward's WP talkpage. It's not like Ed came here and started some conspiracy or wandalized (that I know/care about). NorsemanWassail! 22:02, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Ooops, I'll change my reply then. Haha, sorry for thinking it was you he was referring to. =.= Candlewick 22:15, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Apple doesn't talk about Microsoft? Have you seen all the Mac/PC ads where they are talking about how much trouble people are having with Vista? --BoredCPer 22:24, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
I thought I said, "wishes to not talk about Microsoft, but since Gates helped Apple they are forced to" Oh well... whatever. Maybe I'll change it to that now. =.= Kettle Kin Version 2.0 22:34, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
It reminds me of Leoben leaning in and telling Roslin that Adama is a Cylon. For anyone who watches the show. - Lardashe

## Stephen Fry

Maybe someone should tell Andy that stephen fry is a flaming homo. See where homeschooling gets you?--Waiting for Godot 22:27, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

He wasn't homoschooled - Public (=private!) schooled (He was imprisoned at 17 for credit card theft/fraud)   ContribsTalk 22:35, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
All part of a modern classical education. Jellyfish!Let's go down the waterfall 06:59, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

##  Let's have a bit more chivalry please

Right you lot - a bit of respect from you: "Chivalry ... women were to be honored as the equivalent of the Virgin Mary. ...treating women with flattering respect, such as holding a door or standing when the woman gets up from a table or visits it ... refraining from degrading or profane speech in the presence of women ...avoidance of gossip, particularly by men." - Chivalry on cp[[1]   ContribsTalk 22:37, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

And remember, men, "Thou shalt not engage the Virgin Mary in athletic competition". --SpinyNorman 22:40, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
I'm not sure I follow the "particularly by men" bit. Is that code for "stay away from homos?"--Antifly 22:44, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
No! It means that women, with their fly-by-night, higgledy-piggledy, non-mathematical brains can be expected to waffle and jabber but big strong men don't need to.   ContribsTalk 22:51, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
BTW, I've no objection to the respect but why qualify it with "flattering" - so deceitful sounding!   ContribsTalk 22:53, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
But "avoidance" surely means avoiding people who are gossiping. Also, I was going through some recent edits to the maf curriculum that I somehow missed, nobody is more "non-mathematical" then Andy.--Antifly 22:55, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Try Ed! & he's teaching this autumn (fall).   ContribsTalk 22:57, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Try Ed! & he's teaching this autumn (fail). ħuman 23:53, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
I wonder where they picked up the "women were to be honored as the equivalent of the Virgin Mary" thing. (Alright, I don't. I know they pulled it out of thin air). If anything, the connection is the other way around - the Church latched on to chivalry and courtly love to promote a devotion to the Virgin. Also, it would be interesting what they would say if someone were to point out the probable Arabic/Andalusian origins of courtly love. --AKjeldsenCum dissensie 07:17, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Someone with more knowledge of the topic may want to correct me, but wasn't chivalry revived around the Victorian era as a chauvinist act? I think it was something along the lines of "Oh you poor women, it must be so terrible having to be inferior creatures to men — here, let me hold a door open for you to shine a ray of light into your miserable existence!"Shangrala 09:10, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Of course it was. It was also a way to keep them weak and unquestioned. But it should also be noted that Chivalry was a public display for *some* women. those who had land, title, etc. Rape was common, knights and lords often required "first blood" of all virgins that were not of noble blood. (ie., if i want your maidenhead, i can take it as your lord). From the point of view of a modern feminist, there is nothing chivalrous about chivalry. Your own "wife" or "lady" was there to make political ties. you treated her "fine", but then went off and played with the rest of the women of the land. Bet that's not part of the code Andy wants highlighted.--Waiting for Godot 10:12, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Actually, ius primae noctis, or "first blood" as you call it, never existed. It's a myth that appeared sometime in the 16th century, and which of course Voltaire and his lovable peers happily used in their search for more ways to demonize the middle ages. --AKjeldsenCum dissensie 10:59, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Schlafly's attitude suddenly reminded me of this. He'd probably find nothing funny about it. --JeevesMkII 10:17, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, the whole Chivalry thing (like much of the knighthood era) has been completely glossed over by the romanticizing of history. Chivarly had all to do with making exceptions in normal behavior because the poor women couldn't do anything themselves and for the most part, vows of chivalry were lip service only. Read about what some of the good christian knights and men at arms did during the crusades to their own people (and Jews... The christian attitude seems to be a pretty constant Fuck the Jews) to see exactly how important Chivalry was.... Kinda like the whole Pirate code thing. SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 11:37, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Keen, Maurice: Chivalry (Yale UP, 1984) ISBN 978-0300107678. --AKjeldsenCum dissensie 11:48, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Yale??? but that's a liberal denzion breeding ground of liberalism and therefore mental illness. You, Sir, know nothing of chivalry... or I dare say, of anything else.--Waiting for Godot 11:51, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Yes. That is the sad truth. I am entirely ignorant and unworthy. --AKjeldsenCum dissensie 12:03, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

(unindent) Hey! I practice chivalry whenever I leave my home, at least what I think chivalry should be. I hold open doors, pull the chair out, hold the umbrella over strangers, foot the bill, and yes, kneel down and kiss her hand. I get laughed at, called a fruitcake... I just smile back, because when it comes down to it, I get more action. :3 NorsemanWassail! 13:29, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

More action than what?Shangrala 13:46, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
I open doors for anyone - it's polite. I stand up when anyone enters the rroom - first time- ditto, I give up my seat to those more in need of it than me - ditto. It seems that Chivalry is Courtesy directed towards females - load o' crock!   ContribsTalk 15:02, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Well, yeah, that's what I think chivalry should be (and I'm not limited to that, those are minor). :P I said "more action" in a sense of comparison to whoever pokes fun at me. =.= NorsemanWassail! 23:19, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
I do the same thing... not because of chivalry (or a strange call for more action I'm just kidding Norse, relax and put down that oversized hammer) I do it because it's polite and good manners. I hold doors for everyone... I'll admit, I'm much more likely to give up a seat to a female of any age before a male my age, but I think that's just common curtesy andnot some special treatment because girls need it (Unless they're really hot, then it's an attempt to start a conversation) SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 23:24, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

## The politics of the Politics of science

I was looking through recent changes and saw this. It wasn't even added to the article it was placed on the talkpage and Ed deleted it. So an example of politics interfering with science has nothing to do with the article if it is the Bush administration interfering? $\approx$$\pi$ 23:57, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

##  Night Editing

Is there a way for the night editing block on CP to be automated? The "editing is closed at whatever time Andy goes to goddamned bed" thing is really obnoxious. CorryYou can always tell a Milford man. 23:45, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

Keep in mind you're talking about a website run by the stupidest and most obnoxious people on the planet. Do you really expect anything else? DickTurpis 23:47, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Hey! I can block, night edit, and upload... meaning I "run" the site in a minor way. I'm not the least intelligent or the most obnoxious--just a little arrogant and unstable. =.= Kettle Kin Version 2.0 12:29, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Maybe I'm getting a bit obsessed myself, because he turned it off right in mid-debate on the main Talk page about the whole U-of-Chicago-is-withholding-data-on-Obama B.S. Oh, wait - that was his latest response. Let's coin a new technique: the Schlafly Shutdown --SpinyNorman 23:56, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
He always turns it off mid-debate. He goes to bed and hopes that when he get up the people he was losing to have lost interest, this is another Schlafly debate strategy when he can't pull the rearguard or is unjustified in using the banhammer. $\approx$$\pi$ 00:00, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
I suspect the denizens of Conservapedia would think a cron job wasn't family friendly. Of course, anyone with half a brain would think maybe they should find some admins that lived in places other than the USA to keep order when it's Assfly's beddy time. Then again, if they think British public schools are havens of liberality, what chance does the rest of the world have? --JeevesMkII 11:56, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

## Culling Atheists

Thanks to whoever WIGOd that - I've just snorted coffee out my nose. Don't worry - we won't burn you at the stake, we'll hunt you down and kill you instead. --PsyGremlinWhut? 08:01, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Bugler takes one step closer to the Precipice of Complete Logical Disconnection.
But more importantly, hasn't he gotten his common saying ("a Conservative is a Liberal who has been mugged") the wrong way round? The version I've heard is "a Liberal is a Conservative who's been arrested". Thoughts? Jellyfish!Let's go down the waterfall 08:14, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
I hadn't noticed that. Is he suggesting mugging as a means for converting liberals? weaseLOId~ 08:18, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Wow, that's funny.... I had never heard either or those phrases exactly like that. I had always heard the general "the difference between a Conservative and Liberal depends on which side of the law they're on." or something to that affect... But it really does make sense damn 9/12 conservatives. SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 11:15, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Bugler is a parodist. He's just slowly notching up the wackiness to see how far he can get. This puts CP in a bit of a corner. After accepting his wackiness as the genuine article, and repeatedly being informed that he is a parodist, they have a problem. If they block him for parody its admitting they've fallen for it, if they let him continue they have to bear the lulz damage he causes. Which is the lesser of the two evils? Auld Nick 14:36, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

The alternative is to block him on a false pretense or without explanation and then make uttering his name as forboden as talking about the FBI or Andy's lies and craziness. Problem solved . . . Exasperate me!Sheesh!Not the most impressive contributor here 14:38, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

##  Ed Poor's recent edits

When is he going to accept that he is just not that smart? He doesn't seem to understand moderate mathematical concepts (late high school if you are advanced, first year university for sure), he doesn't know how to write an article (seen his box quote ones recently?) and now he is pushing for adminship at Wikiveristy. It seems to me that having sysop powers at a wiki is the only way he can function on one (did he seriously ask for it here?) and maybe feel superior or intelligent. Maybe it is just because I have been writing about him a bit recently but he does seem to in the last two months gotten stupider then I remember him being. $\approx$$\pi$ 09:01, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Do you have a link to him pushing admin at Wikiversity? I was cruising around there and couldn't find anything, but I'd love to get a good laugh! His try to reinstate himself for the third (?) time at WP was hilarious! --Jdellaro 09:26, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
(EC)Maybe our "biggest idiot" award affected him, or maybe the math class he's going to give in September was scheduled on July or so, thus inciting him to work on math articles which resulted in the stuff we just wrote about at the CP math article. NightFlarei haz a talk page. 09:27, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
He's going to give a "math class" in September? What did I miss? Will he be talking about natural logarithms? Gauss 21:17, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Okay pushing is a strong word, but I love how it is his automatic response just a few edits after joining. $\approx$$\pi$ 09:39, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
There's so much WRONG with that response. It's un-friggin-believable. The edit comment, "Should I apply for adminship here?" And the comment itself, all of two sentences, and he manages to show his complete idiocy. "I haven't been here long enough to tell." Followed by him stating perhaps he should put in to be an admin. YOU JUST SAID YOU HAVEN'T BEEN THERE THAT LONG!!! Why do you think you should be an admin at a place that you can't even really tell the difference between the way Wikiversity works v. the old ways of WP???? That takes some fucking cojones! Although, I love the response from SBJohnny: "Heh, well, we don't really do RFAs here" Perhaps if Ed had been there for more than two months (excluding the TWO edits he did in March, 2006), he'd know about the procedures of that wiki. In fact, you should probably know HOW the place runs BEFORE trying to get yourself an admin position! --Jdellaro 10:06, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
I do hope we have made him flip, the power we have with one poorly shopped together wiki-template. $\approx$$\pi$ 09:42, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
I can just see Ed getting his sysop powers and immediately blocking SBJohnny for being condescending to a sysop for offering to "mentor" him. DickTurpis 10:11, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Well, isn't that precisely how he got sysop powers at CP? NightFlarei haz a talk page. 10:13, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

(undent)

On a related note, this is a gem that I was thinking about WIGO-ing. This is Ed on the usefulness of allowing Atheists on CP in the hope of converting them: "Being skeptical about God's existence is not irrational, but positively asserting His non-existence usually is. In reaching out to evil people we cannot avoid pointing out their errors." --SpinyNorman 12:15, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

## Someone Help me Out

Would someone please help me.... this little gem from Andy needs to wigod, but I can't think of a good snarky phrase... To sum it up, his example of Stephen Fry's mental illness being a product of Liberal schools has been blown out of the water, so he responds that Liberal Teachings may have been picked up by newspaper. teaching doesn't always mean schools you liberal bastards. SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 11:11, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

It's easy to see why poor little Schlafly has a vendetta against Fry. He's everything the Assfly isn't. Articulate, intelligent, witty, liberal, proudly gay, successful, admired. The list is pretty much endless. Andy just can't stand that there's someone who embodies everything he rails against on a daily basis and yet also embodies the antithesis of the consequences he invokes. It'd be sad if it wasn't so amusing. --JeevesMkII 12:08, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Fry also has a very nice speaking voice (as they say on Monty Python) compared to Schlafly's horrible nasal whine. GenghisOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 13:02, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

## Largest Class in the World

Yeah, right. Not only do I know he's wrong, I can't help but feel like spewing outbursts like Tourettes Guy to the parents who are THAT stupid. NorsemanWassail! 13:45, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

You know, most people with Tourette's don't swear like that. --Kels 13:53, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
I know, he has tourettes but its over-exaggerated on purpose. NorsemanWassail! 18:15, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
It usually takes reading Andy for 10 minutes to get me swearing to that level. But I'm a bit of a tough case. --Kels 21:11, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Umm, somebody help me out here. Andy claims that his American History class is the largest in the world. What could he possibly mean by that? I understand there is the obvious interpretation: Andy thinks that no history class has every had 57 (48 + 9) students, but surely he isn't that stupid there must some other explanation. Right? <sigh> Bjones 13:45, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

(EC) The last time someone questioned the claim, he demanded proof that there's a larger class. Of course, if anyone were to provide "proof" of a larger class, he'd immediately either 1) Deny the proof, or 2) Claim that large student-to-teacher ratios are a failure of public schooling. Actually, universities are always bragging about low student-to-teacher ratios, so having the "largest American history class in the world" is a negative! --Jdellaro 13:48, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

He'll just redefine "American history class" to something stupidly specific. Also taking bets on "You Liberals are too literal!"Shangrala 13:49, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Holy shit. He just apologized [2]. Though I imagine he is still wrong about it being the largest "pre-college" class. Bjones 14:03, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Denver schools has an interative program that uses the internet to hook up thier "sociology class" (i know, vague, but it's Denver) to other equlivent classes around the country and even world, so kids can interact with other kids and hear how they view the same materials. My point to ratteling this off, is that i'm sure someone does this somewhere with American History, so it's not like Andy's class is even the largest Internet class anywhere. Hot. Air. As. Usual.--Waiting for Godot 14:07, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Maybe he means, "The largest pre-college homeschool American History class of this generation in the world!" =.= Kettle Kin Version 2.0 15:00, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Ahh, modesty and humility. Such a paragon of Conservative/Christian values. --SpinyNorman 15:46, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
I think you missed out the important caveat "taught by Andrew Schlafly." --JeevesMkII 15:02, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Hmm.. yea. The first time he taught American History, I think he had half the amounts of students. =.= Kettle Kin Version 2.0 15:07, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
I think the real point is this: by having this "largest" class, isn't he crossing a line of what he's legally allowed to do without a teaching license? For instance, a kid's parents (assuming they aren't physicians), are legally allowed to purchase and give their kids OTC meds- aspirin, what have you. And if a friend was over and they felt sick, just the same. But setting up shop, seeing many patients and charging people, that's crossing the line. CorryYou can always tell a Milford man. 15:12, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, it does kind of remind me of Lucy from Peanuts, setting up her "Psychiatric Help" stand, and she's in business. It'll be interesting, btw, to see if there's a response to this from Andy. --SpinyNorman 15:43, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Of course there is! Low teacher/pupil ratios are as a result of lazy professors, of course! --PsyGremlinWhut? 16:11, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
--AKjeldsenCum dissensie 17:52, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Is there a school board or state licensing requirement in Andy's home state or county or district for classes over a certain size? This goes beyond an after school tutoring program. --Shagie 16:23, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

it can only be an issue if Andy is presenting himself as a licensed teacher. There are no laws that require you have a license to teach, unlike medicine or law (and even those laws can be avoided) as long as the parents know that Andy is essentially some guy with a website, it's perfectly legal for them to enroll their kids, call it homeschooling and get an exemption from the state. This is the loophole California closed with it's recent changes, you just never hear about it because the right wing groups were too busy complaining about the anti-homeschool bias. SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 16:28, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Help me out here...can someone please explain why homeschooling is better because your kids don't have to socialise with other kids and pick up their nasty ideas but a class of over 40 is a good idea because your kids can socialise with other kids and presumably pick up their nasty ideas? On the other hand, don't bother - I'll just go and find a liberal English public school instead. Mick McT 18:22, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
In all seriousness, I think it serves two purposes. First, we're talking about homeschool parents allowing their kids to interact with the same in a quarantined socially acceptable setting, which they view as a positive. Second, it probably helps the kids feel less socially isolated to know there are others doing the same thing, when most of their neighbors are likely going to public school. --SpinyNorman 18:53, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
No, no, tsk. You misunderstand. It's so that kids are only exposed to our sort of people. You know, Catholics with Catholics, Protestants with Protestants, Jews with Jews and Arabs with Arabs. That way they're all brought up right to hate the same people and things their parents hate, and all is right with the world for another generation. --JeevesMkII 18:49, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Doesn't usually work out that way, ironically enough. My aunt & uncle fled big, bad NYC and moved way out onto Long Island to a growing baby-boom town being settled by other white-Catholic exiles. Two of their three kids grew up to be what I call fear-of-the-unknown racists (as opposed to the KKK type), and would never visit their grandparents, who lived in a white section of Queens, because they were so irrationally afraid of "the City". I managed to drag one onto a subway in her early 20's, and she was trembling the whole time. Yeah, this social coccooning really equips your kids for life, doesn't it? --SpinyNorman 19:03, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Why is he so happy about having a large class? Larger class sizes frequently don't correlate to an increase in educational quality. --λινυσ() 19:14, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

You think he has serious sensible ideas about educational quality? No, he just wants to pontificate to as many people as he can. weaseLOId~ 19:19, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
But it does correlate linearly with more money for Andrew Schlafly Esquire, BSE, JD, OBE and Gibbon. That's capitalism, bitch and any whiny commie unionised teacher who complains about quality of education can suck him. --JeevesMkII 19:23, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
I'm getting a definite sense of Andy's ego coming out in this response. He's basically saying that unlike those lazy, liberal, unionized public school teachers, he's "not aware of" any number of students that would be too large for him to teach in person...(drum roll)..thanks to the incredible power of an opening classroom prayer. Sigh. --SpinyNorman 20:04, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
I can never reply when this kind of stuff happens, grr. Well, anyway, "...the liberal theory that smaller classes are better. They have less competition, less insights, and less socializing, as I explained."
Okay? Not really when I took Drawing I at my local county college a few summers ago.
I rarely ever talked anyway; socializing isn't a good thing when you're drawing, eh Nezumi?
Less competition: there were 7 other people taking Drawing I, most of them were waaay better at drawing than I was... but (CP "defense") that's probably because they're majoring in it, and/or they were older than myself. Classes are supposed to be about giving helpful criticism and bringing out the best in not-so-good students.
Less insight didn't matter in this class--or in Intro to Philosophy, which I took the following year. Everyone was just as dedicated to their work as everyone else. I will take a huge step and boldly say, "A bunch of homeschool conservatives in a room provides less insight because everyone has the same eye on American policy, government, economy, and blahblahomosexualblah." Maybe if a homeschool class willingly admits a public schooler or two, they [the class] will have some meaningful debates.
The largest class in high school was 37 (the incoming freshman class was HUUUGE!). The smallest non-period 0 class in high school was 7. Period 0 meets before officially starts school (6am-7am) and had 5 students registered.
=.= Kettle Kin Version 2.0 11:51, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
On a more serious (and sobering) note, have you noticed how lawyer Andy keeps slipping in the concept that bigger classes are better because they're "more competitive", among other things? I can't help but feel like that phrase is his escape from accountability for the students who don't do well. He runs a competitive classroom, and if your kid doesn't do well it's their fault for not stepping up to the challenge, and not his for failing to teach effectively. Just a feeling, but a strong one. --SpinyNorman 20:09, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Makes me think of some sort of Lord of the Flies version of education, where the kids are all cutthroat competitors for the precious grades. Certainly more entertaining than what's actually happening, with Andy struggling to keep up with 16-year-olds and making up "facts" as he goes to cover up the gaps. --Kels 21:22, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
The guy's an idiot. If any public school tried to cram 48ish kids into one (usually 11th grade) US History class, they'd have parents (and the teacher) storming the gates, to say nothing of state boards of ed. looking into why they are screwing up. Now, at college, survey-type "intro" classes are often huge, and not taught by veterans - they're usually for people not majoring in the subject, and the more advanced classes are all much smaller. Sayeth Andy: "Nor do I buy into the liberal theory that smaller classes are better. They have less competition, less insights, and less socializing," No, they don't have less sovializing, they have more. 48 kids can't interact in an enriching way all at the same time. 8-12 works much better - much harder to "hide in the back", and plenty of time for everyone to get their yap on. Correct me if I was wrong about the collegy stuff. ħuman 20:54, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

On the other paw, there's something to be said for a certain amount of hiding. When I did A-Level further mathematics, there were as I recall six of us of whom I was the stupidest (OK, that's not terribly fair to myself. Of whom, I was the laziest.) Even if you're the stupidest of the brightest people in the college, it's not a terribly great feeling :D --JeevesMkII 21:59, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
I dunno how big Andy's economics class is but here's a gem (with model answers).
4. Elizabeth owns a clothing store. She can spend $100,000 today to increase her inventory of fancy clothes, which would increase her profits by$104,000 in one year without any further benefit. Interest rates are 5%. Should she make the investment?
So Elizabeth spends $100,000 to add to her inventory (stock) of fancy clothes, which would increase her profits by$104,000 in one year. That is what ever profits she made with existing stock and that acquired for $100,000. (Assuming she sells it all). Profits are of course (simplified) Turnover - costs. There's some info missing in that question - no Andy has formulated it so badly it can't be answered but here's the New Model Answer (Learn by heart now Kidz!!): Elizabeth would do better to invest her money at the 5% interest rate. By doing so she would end up with$105,000 rather than $104,000. Going by that profits were$4000 (not increased by $104,000) on a$100,000 outlay, a really shitty mark-up for fancy clothes. The man is clueless. Auld Nick 13:17, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

##  How you know Bugler is a paradise...

He makes Karajou sound really, really sane. Bjones 14:37, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

its cause karajerk is an atheist too. Popeye doesn't go to church. He's just at CP to lay down the law . . . Exasperate me!Sheesh!Not the most impressive contributor here 14:40, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
I'm surprised it took so long for one of The Powers That Be over there to slap that little charade down. Also interesting that all the other sysops and admins (except Ed) studiously avoided it. --PsyGremlinWhut? 14:45, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Ed didn't get the memo to avoid the debate. He was too busy filling out RFAs for every wiki in creation. "RFA domo arigato?" --Jdellaro 15:08, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Yep, you know something is deeply wrong when Karajou is suddenly the Good Cop. --Sid 14:52, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
This is funny.--Antifly 15:11, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Translation: "I'll wait until I night lock the site, and when nobody's looking, archive my talk page!" --Jdellaro 15:13, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
It was 83kb long, you can hardly blame him for archiving at least parts of it. But how did Andy miss that page? Did he finally decide that a Harvard lawyer has better things to do with his time than play on a wiki? (no offense to all y'all, but I'm pretty sure my time could be more productively spent, though if I did, I'd miss out on a lot of lulz) --Toiretni 15:18, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Bugler may be a brilliant parodist, but he's a fucking annoying one, as he hands out severe bans to anyone else he suspects are parodists. He's like the Microsoft of the parodist world, looking to embrace, extend and extinguish the "opposition," trying to gain a monopoly on CP parody. I realise that is all part of his gameplan, to gain favour with the prince of darkness through his behaviour, but it sure limits the lulz opportunities for the rest of us. Not that I'm bitter or anything. Bondurant 15:25, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

I loved Andy's response, btw:
"Damn Wow, I need to finally acknowledge what 20% of the posts in the past 24 hours have been about read through all that before praising Bugler for his dedication to this project commenting". --SpinyNorman 15:26, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
*sighs*, is it just me, or is the whole "Mr. Schafley" thing a big erie. I don't think I call anyone "mister". especially not just the owner of some website, sehesh. oh, wait, i'm a liberal, and have no respect for my betters elders.--Waiting for Godot 16:58, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
It's a disease common to most wikis, because everyone knows they hold all the power. Wikipedia has Jimbo-worship, Conservapedia has Aschafly-worship, but everyone here knows that tmtoulouse is clearly the best. --Toiretni 17:34, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Isn't it ironic that the whole page is about misquoting, while that has nothing to do with the quoted text? NightFlarei haz a talk page. 17:50, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
From that page you linked to: "People do on occasion claim that what Jimbo said is The Truth™ (or indeed, create policy proposals based upon vague interpretations of his words)" <-- Replace "Jimbo" with "Andy" and you just described almost all sysops (edited to reflect the existence of sysops like PJR) and parodists most other "trusted editors".
About calling Andy (or any other sysop) "Mr. Xyz"... no. Just no. It completely undermines the entire "We're a group of (more or less) equals" spirit of a wiki project. Yes, some people make the rules and enforce them, but it shouldn't be a case of there being a Ruling Class or a Divine Ruler that has to be treated with extra honors. --Sid 17:58, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
There are much bigger much more obvious ways that Conservapedia has violated the spirit of wiki editing. And Wikipedia more or less survived this one, so this is unlikely to prove fatal unlike Conservapedia's other issues. --Toiretni 19:15, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
This suggests that we could have fun with titles. Andy "teaches" a class. Those with socks could try referring to him as Prof. Schlafly.--Antifly 19:30, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
I thought he was some sort of professor at soem point in his "career"? ħuman 20:57, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

##  An old gem from Andy

I just found this edit. It contains great logic like:

1. His hatred of women was caused by his father, who incidentally is a Muslim
2. Canadians used the event to create laws about violence towards women, which is somehow not a good thing
3. Canadians didn't use the event to ... focus on his Muslim father?

If you check the talk page, you can see Lepine's suicide letter. I also doubt that this is a good source on any of his assertions....Shangrala 15:50, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

For a split second I could've sworn that guy was Roger. NightFlarei haz a talk page. 17:21, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Has Andy looked at the website beyond what he wanted to find. {http://volokh.com/ The guy] is questioning the Socratic method as staple of analytic theory for 2,300 years. Oh well Andy doubts the proof by contradiction they might get along well then. $\approx$$\pi$ 19:31, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
This has to be one of my all time favourites. "We reject the liberal Dictionary!. Ace McWickedwhisky 19:34, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

"Shock at the fact that the gunman didn't "fit" the typical mold of a killer, when in fact the gunman wore all black and was taught at a public school." Wait a minute, what? The "mold of a killer" is wearing black and going to a public school? That's... uh... vague. And unhelpful.

Also, his description of the reaction to the Montreal Massacre is incomplete: The incident lead to the creation of the current school shooting reaction protocols, which allow police to rush the school instead of waiting for military backup. This protocol was then adapted by the US, and has saved countless lives since. But hey, what's important is that the god damn liberals thought that keeping guns out of people's hands would prevent people from shooting others. Barikada 05:06, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

## Poe's Law

I just discovered this old page: cp:Conservapedia:How can we protect Conservapedia by distinguishing real conservative encyclopedia articles from satires written by liberals? --Marty 17:18, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Funny how Jinx chimes in asking for details a year after the debate has petered out. weaseLOId~ 17:38, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

##  Student-to-teacher ratio

Does Andy actually believe this? Wow.

I will be watching/listening from afar... I won't give you any details though. Mwa-ha-ha-ha *giggles like a little homeschool girl* =.= Kettle Kin Version 2.0 11:57, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

I've always been a little dubious of Andy's wiki-like "let the students teach themselves" theory. Self-teaching can definitely be a wonderful thing, but there are many instances where it falls on its face. Now we see that he really believes this stuff.

Yeah, I had lots of really large freshmen classes. And yeah, there was lots of socializing. But on the whole it all seemed pretty unproductive. Maybe Andy has never gone near an average freshmen class. --Toiretni 19:27, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Has this been discussed in our "serious" andrew schlafly article yet? My god... tmtoulouse irritate 19:30, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
'Bump - this is important, and should be covered carefully at Andrew Schlafly (no jokes) while the links are fresh in everyone's minds. ħuman 01:10, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
In the UK at least, it tends to be expected that some 50-60% of University entrants will drop out in the first year of any given course. During my own first year the lecture halls were crammed, but by the second there was no problem getting a seat. They don't particularly expect you to learn anything difficult during your first year, and your assessments don't count towards your overall degree mark (which they do from year two onwards, with an appropriate weighting.) It's quite a different thing to actually revel in trying to teach so many people, especially with material so awful as the American History lecture notes he has prepared. --JeevesMkII 19:37, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

I could swear Andy did say something about burning out while grading papers, or that he could only grade a few at a time, in contradiction to this statement. I thought it was in relation to the Lenski discussion. Anyone else remember something to that effect? --Jdellaro 19:44, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

I saw that too but can't remember where. Perhaps on the pages about classes.--Neon 21:49, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
The burning out was on the american history lectures where he recommended doing a little bit every night, like how he grades papers. tmtoulouse irritate 21:50, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
 …Nor do I buy into the liberal theory that smaller classes are better. They have less competition, less insights, and less socializing, as I explained.

What? Since when is competition necessary for academic development? And since when is the idea that smaller classes are a good idea a "liberal theory"? --λινυσ() 19:59, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

I realise that most of the world has a better memory than me (you can tell me your name, and 10 minutes later I'll have forgotten it, at school I used to dread being assigned the task of handing back homework books because I couldn't remember who was who beyond my own friends.) but does anyone else think it's unrealistic to even remember the names of everyone in a class of 50 people? --JeevesMkII 20:12, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
(copied from above since the thread moved here) On a more serious (and sobering) note, have you noticed how lawyer Andy keeps slipping in the concept that bigger classes are better because they're "more competitive", among other things? I can't help but feel like that phrase is his escape from accountability for the students who don't do well. He runs a competitive classroom, and if your kid doesn't do well it's their fault for not stepping up to the challenge, and not his for failing to teach effectively. Just a feeling, but a strong one. --SpinyNorman 20:09, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Great observation and conclusion! "Sorry, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, that little Johnny didn't pass the AP exams. Obviously he wasn't competitive enough in the class. Perhaps he should try cheating next time." --Jdellaro 20:19, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
(edit conflict while amending) I think that smaller classes are both more effective and competitive. With fifty people it's easier to hide. With twelve (or ten for the metric-minded), I feel you have more motivation to come prepared for the discussion.
And I agree that competition isn't the holy grail here. Instilling the ethics of intellectual curiosity and self-teaching are. Who hasn't known some cutthroat bastard at school who would step on anybody to move up higher on the curve? CorryYou can always tell a Milford man. 20:28, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
What about the binary-minded, you fiend? :( --λινυσ() 20:33, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Andy like larger classes for the same self-serving motivation he claims that teachers unions do. A professional teacher's pay is the same regardless of class size so smaller class sizes means the same money for easier work. Andy on the other hand is payed by the student, so more students, more money. At 48 students Andy could cut it into two classes but then Andy would have to spend twice as much time in contact with the student, so for Andy it is more money for the same work.
I give two tutes back to back in the same subject each with about 25 students. I could imagine what happened if I took Andy's philosophy and merged them into the one and still claimed two tutes worth of pay.$\approx$$\pi$ 20:28, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Also, since when did the average high school attendee have useful insight in to anything other than the latest music trends? Yeah, OK, there's the occasional Pascal or Mozart, but by and large the bell curve centres somewhere around "Kevin and Perry." I wonder if the "insight" he sees from his students is because he's just as ignorant of the subject he's teaching as they are. --JeevesMkII 20:27, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

I guess I sort of made my comment for this section a few sections above... please to scroll up, read, and scold me down here. ħuman 20:58, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Uh oh, Jamal is questioning the Assfly... add that to his obviously black name (we all know that names dictate everything about you, race, religion, support for classroom prayer etc) and he's done for. SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 21:01, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Cripes, and now both Andy and PJR are having a contest to see who can put the most words in Dinsdale's mouth, and both dishonestly missing what Dinsdale is saying in the first place. And here, PJR was being such a class act lately. --Kels 22:47, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

PJR is true to form: sane when it comes to class sizes and Andy's hypocrisy, insane when it comes to religion. I still can't get over this "the benefits small class size is a liberal myth" thing. Andy is drawing liberal/conservative lines all over the pace. I saw him basically arguing that liberals support nuclear fusion and conservatives support nuclear fission. The man is deranged. DickTurpis 22:57, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
I keep forgetting that PJR comes off as classy and reasonable as compared to the others at CP, but he's still a nutter. Just a more polite nutter that can function in society. --Kels 23:56, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
You know, Andy's position confused me for a bit... then I think I finally figured it out... He's gone so far off the track that anyone he considers an enemy (which is just about everyone these days) is automatically on the bad list. Anything they support, no matter how obvious it is, it disputed by Andy. Think about it: Scientists say that the speed of light hasn't changed, but scientist's are bad, so the speed of light did change. Teacher's unions say that small classes are good, but unions are bad. So HUGE FUCKING CLASSES ARE AWESOME (on a side note, I would love to see Andy survive on a first year teacher salary alone, then he can see exactly how "overpaid" these teachers are SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 00:00, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Actually, I don't know if it's quite that in this case. Sure, most of the time it's accurate, but I think this is more he got this big class together (somehow) and now wants to brag about it. So of course he got called on it when his bragging got too big, and now he's responding to that by being aggressive. For Andy, the proper response to painting yourself into a corner is to tear the house down. --Kels 00:03, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
No. Conservapedia started as a home-schooling platform, this "students will teach themselves" stuff isn't a belief that Andy only recently or very tentatively holds. He seriously believes that starting each class with "here's a wiki, go autodidact amongst yourselves" works most of the time. Most teachers believe that the more interaction with the teacher is better (thus smaller class sizes), Andy believes that the more interaction with students is better (because students are better teachers than... the teacher). (Note: I agree that self-directed learning is a wonderful thing, but few people are autodidacts, and even fewer are consistent autodidacts, remaining interested even in the face of subjects they believe to be boring). --Toiretni 08:39, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

##  Andy is a parodist

WIGO 137 proves its. Now what? Exasperate me!Sheesh!Not the most impressive contributor here 21:16, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

McIntyre was my hero, he'd bluntly call a spade a spade (in this case, Andy's classroom prayer trolling again). Wish someone would have the courage to make note that he brings up classroom prayer as a trolling tactic for losing ground in a discussion, without callously risking a ban. NorsemanWassail! 23:26, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
What's the law the states if you have to announce you've won a debate that means you've lost it? I think we need a version for Andy: anytime Andy brings school prayer into an argument that does not directly involve school prayer, he has officially lost. He loses a lot. DickTurpis 23:31, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, I think it's time for Dinsdale to take a vacation. Falling for such obvious troll-bait has me annoyed at myself, but it was worth it to see PJR pwn Andy on longer, meaningful responses being better than short, blunt nonsense. --SpinyNorman 23:36, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Andy wins, 6-to-4... ;-) --SpinyNorman 23:44, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
...and immediately shuts down editing for the night. -SpinyNorman 23:50, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Ah, the Schlafly ShutdownTM wins! CorryYou can always tell a Milford man. 00:02, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
We should make an article on that, so I redlinked it (and decapped "shutdown", apologies). Also, the innertube law... they have a cat... category:internet laws, somewhere in there. ħuman 01:13, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Danth's Law. --Gulik 03:03, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
If you bring up the professorship of either Obama or Dawkins than you've lost the debate. BeastmasterGeneral 10:31, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Andy has pretty much lost the debate when he says "as a Liberal I suppose you also believe/defend (delete which is appropriate) [fill in previous debate that raged on over 5 talk page archives he lost on minor related topic]." It just gives him yet another fill in option for a later debate. $\approx$$\pi$ 10:39, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
That's pretty much how the Schlafly-o-Matic seems to work :S Armondikov 11:02, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

## Jamal

Sock of JGreene, gee let me guess, his name isn't Jamal Greene by any chance? No he is not a sock a sock is when your use our name generator and pretend that is your real name. Whne you use variations on your name that is following CPs policy. 192.43.227.18 22:56, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

I think the point he was getting at was that JGreene was blocked and then JamalG was registered simply to evade that block... I don't really dispute the block (they were technically following the rules this time) I just question the timing of it. I find it funny that this guy was blocked after pwning Andy with his own words and making him stammer out a weak defense. SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 23:54, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, technically the block is correct this time. But... you need a /generator/ to think of names? Mine are all just clever pop culture references or puns. Barikada 04:46, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
I spend too much time on the computer either here or doing my work, I don't know any "pop" culture anymore. I use DeanS' random name generator because it on occassions gives you AmesG and AndrewS and other names you could get blocked for straight away. $\approx$$\pi$ 05:20, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

##  Ban countdown

Do we have a ban countdown going for JohnyGoodman yet? After this owning of Conservative on the atheism page I think it is only a matter of time. --BoredCPer 23:22, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

##  OK, who's the smartass

Fess up, who wrote this ditty, interesting enough only got a one day 90/10 block. Ames? Nah, too boorish and unsophisticated. WHO DID IT? δλερνερ διαλέγομαι | συνεισφέρω 23:46, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Well now you have posted it here DeanS has up it to a 5 year block. Also Humble was well over a 90/10 block so Andy was justified in doing (according to his rules).
However on the bright side, thanks for the heads up on getting around the filter. $\approx$$\pi$ 00:50, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
My guess of the culprit is Jinxmchue. He did recently uncover our secret society, about which Andy knew nothing. DickTurpis 01:01, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
It is a good thing he told Andy too, I bet he was wondering what was on the only website his spam filter cuts out. $\approx$$\pi$ 01:17, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
To get around the spam filter: r<!-- -->ationalwiki comes out as rationalwiki link http://rational<!-- -->wiki.com http://rationalwiki.com works as well δλερνερ διαλέγομαι | συνεισφέρω 05:07, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

##  Deborah, dear...

This is already on WIGO, but is Deborah high or something? Obamessiah? JJ4eGot milk? 00:02, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

It's all the rage on some of the loonier right-wing blogs these days. --Kels 00:06, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, the same ones that swore up and down that if John Mccain won the nomination they'd defect to Mexico.... All of a sudden he's a damn fine stateman... I know Hannity is famous for that one. SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 00:14, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Simple primate pack-psychology. "He's on My Team, therefore he is Good, unlike those barely-human scumsuckers on The Other Team." --Gulik 03:07, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
The relevant Wikipedia links are ingroup and outgroup. Though if the color of one's shirt is enough to do it, then the color of... (OMG, race card!) --Toiretni 08:04, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

She clearly went off the tracks awhile ago. She's been on a Category kick for months now. Love it when I check Recent Changes and 48 of the last 50 are Deborah adding categories to EVERYTHING. Okay, add the Wiki Religion project to the article, but does it really need to be tagged onto the talk page too? She's REALLY trying to get that sysop nomination, and having every article with 19 categories she thinks is the key. Of course, I'd be curious to see how many people actually come to CP and USE the categories to find information? In fact, I'd be curious to see how many people come to CP to actually learn something new. --Jdellaro 08:50, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

Generally speaking, categories are a great tool to navigate a wiki, and I use it fairly often on Wikipedia or TV Tropes to find related articles. On CP... not really, for various obsvious reasons. Adding many categories there doesn't hurt, but it doesn't change that the entire project is a major trainwreck of right-wing Christian bias and lies. --Sid 09:16, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Generally speaking, you're correct on the categories. For things like WP, with such a massive amount of articles, they're a huge resource. For CP, well, that time could be better spent actually creating articles, rather than having 12 categories on each of the 400 entries they have. --Jdellaro 10:12, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

##  Of on a tangent but...

This news story that has been posted on the Conservapedia frontpage, where does the information in it come from? There is no quotes, no media reports just an unsubstantiated blanket statement that she was under pressure to have an abortion. From who, how where they pressuring her, did they report this to anyone? It seems that they just took the two facts, she was an athlete and she pulled out of Athens to have a child and made the rest up from there. $\approx$$\pi$ 01:24, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

This was pointed out by Dinsdale on the Talk page. Not surprisingly, there have been no responses. --SpinyNorman 12:06, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Muck like their entry on Amanda Beard. Andy's clearly hinting that her lack of success is because she stripped off. Nothing about the fact that just maybe she was too old... --PsyGremlinWhut? 07:18, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
She was on her fourth olympics, and should be praised for that. 16 years of being at a high enough caliber to make the team. Think on that 16 years. Are you doing the same thing you were doing 16 years ago? but no, she posed nude, so her moral affected her performance. --Waiting for Godot 12:28, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Wow.... 16 years ago I was.... 6 years old... and this is pretty normal for Andy, if anyone does something we consider morally wrong and then something bad happens to them (or even something disappointing) it's cause and effect. Andy and the fundies have proven time and time again that they don't understand the difference between corelation and causation, why should he suddenly learn now? SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 12:31, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Hehe, and keep in mind that the vast majority of Olympic athletes end up... losers. Despite their incredible athleticism and efforts. ħuman 19:15, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

##  A new definition of....religion?

There seems to be a new definition of what is a religion floating about in the aether. Not being American I'm having a bit of difficulty understanding why this man is included in the 'religion' project.http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Lyndon_LaRouche

But then again it's Conservapedia so why am I suprised or for that matter, bothered?Mick McT 06:39, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

Lyndon LaRouche is a famous chicken-little, if the whole world does not except his economic platform the world is going to be crushed by hyper-inflation. The people that actually believe his twaddle do have a certain religious like zeal. We should add him to our rebuttals his half thought out rantings on economics are vary scary. $\approx$$\pi$ 07:11, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
More bizarrely - Kirk Cameron? Ok, so he's a born again ex-TV star, but if they had a page for every born again... wait... I think I see Deb's strategy on upping her post count, besides redirects...
Well this is two projects they have underway now, if they had done this in the first place the encyclopedia would not be the embarrassing shambles its articles are now. $\approx$$\pi$ 07:19, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Actually before I sprout off this is maybe something we should do to take the focus of this site of CP somewhat. $\approx$$\pi$ 07:20, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
now that there are more edits than can be kept up with on Recent Changes, that's probably a good idea, in fact it's probably a natural development of all wikis after a certain size. I foresee projects/workgroups/whatever on politics, alternative medicine, religion and of course the ever wonderful CP itself. Wasn't there a whitewash project last year? What happened to it? Totnesmartin 07:27, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
I have no idea what you're talking about, citizen, and neither do you. Please return to your daily routine with no unnecessary delay. --AKjeldsenCum dissensie 08:05, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

## Oh Jinx JasonH, how could you?

I know we're supposed to ignore the prat, but when he dishes up such gems, they really are worth mentioning. For your info,learnt is the past tense of learn. What "wrod" means, only you know. Idiot. --PsyGremlinWhut? 09:20, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

I was about to scold you that the word "idiot" was probably too harsh and disrespectful. But then I read the diff.
Also note that "been" needs a helping verb. --Toiretni 09:26, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
The stupid is strong in this one.
I bet it redlines "spellchecker" too.
Also, nice to see he changed his name, perhaps he can make a RW account now? NightFlarei haz a talk page. 09:34, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
"WO D F IR?" - Bart Simpson --Edgerunner76Save me Jebus! 09:42, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
"Spell checker" is sometimes written as a closed compound noun (but you're right, usually it's an open or hyphenated compound).
Anyway, if Jinx is using the Firefox built-in spell-checker, note that it's very incomplete, especially when it comes to British/U.S. differences (e.g. criticise, colour). But then again, those are considered misspellings on Conservapedia, so maybe Jinx is "correct". --Toiretni 09:50, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Actually I had no idea about whethet it's a real word or not, but I did know some spell-checkers didn't consider it one. NightFlarei haz a talk page. 10:05, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

I don't even know what to say about Jinx. He's gone off the deep end.

He can't be real. He just can't.Shangrala 09:44, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

Shit, nevermind, that's not Jinx at all. Compare the user rights logs [4] [5].Shangrala 09:50, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
(EC) Alright, after reading that, I'm convinced someone logged in as JasonH and nobody at CP has noticed it. There's just too much idiocy in such a very short a time. NightFlarei haz a talk page. 09:55, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
It'll be hilarious when they preserve most of his edits anyway.Shangrala 09:55, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
I must say the imposter is very amusing. Update: Blocked! NightFlarei haz a talk page. 10:00, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

Damn DeanS ruined all my fun. When they got suspicious I was going to post a huge shout-out to you guys on the main talk page. There were no sysops around, Dean must have been reading us again. $\approx$$\pi$ 10:05, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

Andy sure knows how to make lemonade. $\approx$$\pi$ 10:14, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
At least someone is dependable on that site.Shangrala 10:16, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

I would also like to apologise to Kotomi. You seem like a nice person hanging around a bunch of idiots. Sorry that you happened to be the first person to catch me out. You should hang around the idiots here we are much better. $\approx$$\pi$ 10:19, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

I should apologise to Jinx too for maligning him here (good job I didn't WIGO it!). Sorry Jinx! still think you're a prat though--PsyGremlinWhut? 10:23, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
What are you talking about? I lifted half of those statements from his own edits. $\approx$$\pi$ 10:24, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Lol - ah well in that case... Jinx, consider yourself maligned again. --PsyGremlinWhut? 10:30, 22 August 2008 (EDT)yes,I'm fickle

What does it say about you, that it's so easy to impersonate you? Oh, and can someone explain how this site has the power to target his computer too?

Correlation vs causation: Ur doing it rong.
I mean, it's remotely possible, but why would they need to do this to pull this off? --Toiretni 16:25, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Oh, I was just screwing around. I know it was just a freak coincidence that Jinxy Hi, Jinxy couldn't operate his computer properly while someone was impersonating him. --Jdellaro 17:00, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

## sighs

So, i was reading the links in teh Jinx thread above, and i cannot tell you how unbelievably rude I find the people on CP to be. "HOW DARE YOU?" was written in caps, (i'm surprised there were not !!!!!! following it)... you are not to DARE question sysops. Other editors must be treated with respect at all times, (except when we editors hate you liberals). Sysops have the *UNQUESTIONABLE* right to remove things for "liberal bias". A comment a few days ago had lines from a post about a Christian Rock band removed (even thought the band themselves stated them) because of "liberal bias". When the editor tried to apologize, he was told that YOU CANNOT QUESTION WHAT A SYSOP DOES. Fuck, sorry to complain, but what kind of Christianity tells you to be rude, assume you are right in all things, and simply call others out for their ignorance. Editing a forum like this seems to be the only ego stroke these people get each day, and they totally abuse it. --Waiting for Godot 12:40, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

The simple answer to your question is: Andy's kind of christianity... but seriously. Religion in general (especially western religions) draw people like as a rule. A lot of people turn to religion because it reinforces their outlook. Taking Xtianity for example, it promotes almost everything as right/wrong, good/evil, do or don't do. This simplified outlook helps people like Andy who cannot see shades of grey in anything he does. People often say that religion controls people, I think controlling people happen to take well to religion SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 13:05, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
The whole point of CP is a wonky sort of pseudo-feudalism where God Almighty, in His physical manifestation as The Andy, hands down Immutable Truth to His Acolytes (the sysops), and they in turn pass it on to the peasantry (everyone else), who just have to make all their edits around these Unquestionable Facts. --Gulik 18:44, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

##  "Too literal"

What's with Andy's "don't be so literal" beef lately?[6][7][8] Is it an attempt to try to take back the term from liberals who use it when criticizing Biblical literalists? Is it childish? (liberal: You're too literal when reading the Bible. conservative: Nu uh! You're too literal!) Is he being a parodist by criticizing something he himself advocates so heavily? --Toiretni 13:30, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

It's nothing more than a new line he uses to try and slip out of being pwned. --SpinyNorman 13:32, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Exactly what Spiney said. Whenever Andy makes a blanket statment that is easily proven false, he get nailed over it. So his reponse is to completely change the focus of the debate by turning it against the attacker. This is nothing more than "You're too close minded" with a different wrapper SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 13:43, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Well, he should use a different term for it then, because that's not the only way to to misinterpret someone's statements. Or is he suggesting that when liberals misinterpret a statement, they err on the too-literal side, while conservatives err on the too-metaphorical side? --Toiretni 13:53, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Though being from a parodist this might not be fair game, but I like how Bugler suddenly decides certain things must be taken very literally: "So Ann Coulter says she's not a 'big fan' of the First Amendment. That doesn't mean she's not a medium fan. It's impossible to have any idea what she means by such a vague statement!" Someone needs to explain litotes to our parodist friend. DickTurpis 13:58, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
SirChuckB, you may know this already, but please, people, regardless of what Andy may write, it's spelled "closed-minded", and refers to a state in which one's mind is closed (i.e., not open). "Close-minded" (or "close minded") is an error, and we should try not to perpetuate it. That is all. --Marty 23:20, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Help help, I'm being repressed!!!!! SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 23:29, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Maybe he just means your mind is nearby? Maybe he just wants a little space? Why don't you give him some space? --Kels 23:39, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Actually I think that "close minded" is idiomatically, albeit not semantically, correct - it's used in common parlance anyhow. - think his mind is restricted to a close area.   ContribsTalk 23:48, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

##  Uh Oh

I wonder how Andy will respond to this Jrssr5 13:41, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

You know... this explains quite a bit. =.= Kettle Kin Version 2.0 14:34, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

## New Wigo, sorta

A couple days ago I learned how to use AJAX in relation to the new intercom system, I decided to port the WIGO system over to an AJAX one so that the page doesn't have to reload to proccess each vote. If it doesn't work or does anything weird you should alert me to that fact. Cheer! tmtoulouse irritate 13:55, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

Does it wait to change the visual status until it's received a reply back from the server? (i.e. as a way to confirm to the user that the tally has been updated, and they can now move on to another page?) Though I tried this numerous times and could never close the tab quickly enough to keep the server from receiving the update. --Toiretni 14:07, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Yes, all the vote processing takes place server side and returns a new total, so a display change is an indicator of a successful transaction. tmtoulouse irritate 14:10, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Nice work, that was a really needed improovmint! ħuman 19:31, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

May I express how silly it is to send the IP address as a GET parameter? --JeevesMkII 07:27, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

## Farewell

DinsdaleP is no more. [9] Alas. DickTurpis 14:03, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

Rearguarded! CorryYou can always tell a Milford man. 14:08, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
RIP to Dinsdale. He lived far longer than I expected from his comments. --Jdellaro 14:49, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
General question- is there some legitimate way, other than the user giving info away, that they can figure out if someone is really a sock? Is there a reasonable basis for such blocks other than just feeling like somebody is a sock? CorryYou can always tell a Milford man. 15:16, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
About the only tool that can offer anything close to concrete evidence is checkuser, but that is not perfect either. tmtoulouse irritate 15:17, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Well, that was a cheap shot by Croc. I remember the ScottLang thing - I use Comcast in central NJ, where IP addresses are shared, and wound up being blocked because someone tried registering under that name, which was subsequently blocked (trivia - guess why)
I'm not Scott Lang cause I don't do the sock thing, and that guy registered months after I started editing on CP, so who's an alleged sock of who? Like I said, if he wants to banhammer me then he should have been a man and explained it honestly - this was just a stretch, and a bad one at that. All I can hope is that someone like PJR comes to my defense, because I'm not gonna sock up to keep editing there. -SpinyNorman 15:19, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
So this wasn't you? CorryYou can always tell a Milford man. 15:25, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
If it was, better run from the party van.
New Jersey, huh? Do you live within wifi sniffing range of the other New Jersian? --Toiretni 15:35, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
I'm about 40 min away from Andy, but know the area well. He's about as in touch with the everyday man as John McCount the houses... --SpinyNorman 15:53, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

(undent)

Just thinking - it would probably earn folks banhammers themselves, but it'd be great to create a CP userbox with big "RIP" letters and the statement: "This user contributed to the DinsdaleP Memorial fund" --SpinyNorman 17:30, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

I don't know if Croc lives in NJ as well, but I may just show up at the next of these tri-state CP "events", call him out as a coward to his face in front of his fellow acolytes, and leave. These guys enjoy wielding the banhammer from the remote comfort of an armchair too much. --SpinyNorman 17:36, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Watch them snap a photo and then claim to submit it to the FBI along with whatever other tenuous evidence of massive wrongdoing they have (where wrongdoing includes everything from simple easily-reverted wiki vandalism to full-blown breaking-and-backdooring, not that they distinguish between the two). --Toiretni 17:49, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Ah well, time to move on. I'm not sure which comment pushed him over the edge (maybe this or this), but I'll enjoy continuing to have fun from the Rational side. --SpinyNorman 18:04, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

## Hypocrisy meter rising

I notice this edit attempting to malign Obama for being a "downer" by saying that America is not what it once was. Now, am I mistaken or is the whole conservative movement, and CP in particular, based on the fact that librulz have been tearing America to pieces since the 60's (and before)? Of course, when Obama says it its because he's an America hatin' tirrisst! DickTurpis 14:10, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

##  FirstnameLastinit

So, contrary to Jinx's earlier suggestion hijinx!, new users are being automatically blocked for the first-name-last-initial non-rule rule? got blocked with zero edits. --Toiretni 14:45, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

you have got to be kidding. One of the more fun aspects of any wiki or on line experience is the fun people have with names. Not 'socks", but just names. Why do they choose one thing over another, what does it say (or not say) about them. these guys are going nuts over there!--Waiting for Godot 14:54, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
I can't wait until we start seeing messages like "I'm sorry Robert Stevens, we already have a RobS, I'm afraid you cannot contribute to this project. Godspeed." DickTurpis 14:57, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Well, and are already taken, it's possible this guy did conflict. Or maybe it's just that there's been so many bad Nicks so far that Conservapedia now has Forbidden Names in addition to your run-of-the-mill Forbidden Cities.
If so, maybe RationalWiki could get "Andy" put on the list of Forbidden Names. Every time a new user with the name "Andy[lastname]" gets created, Conservapedia sysops should eventually just automatically assume it's a parodist. Because all Andys are. --Toiretni 15:16, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Gosh, I figured France would be on the list, just by matter of course. they are french, don't you know. And how is it that no evil trolls live in the Pagan Capital of the world, Seattle?--Waiting for Godot 15:23, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

Ah well, I'm glad to see Harry Eisoursavior (or is it Heisoursavio Rodriguez?) made the cut. --PsyGremlinWhut? 01:30, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

## MVito

Does anyone have a screenshot of what MVito posted on Aschlafly's talk page... I keep getting an error saying the edit-history was deleted. =.= Kettle Kin Version 2.0 16:29, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

Just an ASCII goatse, nothing particularly novel. --Toiretni 16:31, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
How did Andy nuke just that one edit? I mean, nothing shows up in the deletion logs, so he didn't just zap the whole page..... But there is absolutely no record of this guy even editing the talk page... what happened? SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 17:19, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Oversight, you silly duckling. And good ridance, too... Jellyfish!Let's go down the waterfall 17:22, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Ahhh, so Oversighted edits show up on recent changes, that's neat. NightFlarei haz a talk page. 17:30, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Apparently they do if you remove them by dipping into the history rather than snipping off the edit on the "top". Of course, he could always delete the page and ressurect it without the edits past that point. That'd get it off RC soon enough. Jellyfish!Let's go down the waterfall 17:32, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Fair enough... now what hell is oversight? SirChuckBPlease Excuse me, I have to go out and hunt giraffes 17:38, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Originally created for Wikipedia, though when Andy saw it, he nearly wet his pants and said "PERFECT! I've been wanting something really evil like that for a while!" --Toiretni 17:39, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Has Andy ever used Oversight? You should find gaps in the history page. $\pi$ 19:53, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Okay maybe I should read WIGO first. $\approx$$\pi$ 19:58, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

(unindent) So was KevinW more goats, or what? Bjones 17:59, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

##  Born in the USA

I think it's pretty obvious that "Obama was allegedly born in Honolulu" is not a falsifiable proposition in Andy's mind. Hence, this will not stay up long. Any bets on what the excuse will be? Will the insane levels of True Believer Syndrome cause an epileptic seizure? Bjones 18:05, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

The certificate was handed to FactCheck.org by the Obama team. If a husband-and-wife team can fabricate an entire Norse landing site, surely the hundreds of millions of dollars that Obama has can fabricate one silly piece of paper. --Toiretni 18:34, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
I predict here (first) that the blogosphere will assert that the REAL ORIGINAL Birth Certificate with BHO's itty-bitty-footy-prints was housed in Building 7 (of the World Trade center) showing the offical Malaysian seal and stamp, which is why Building seven had to be destroyed completely. CЯacke® 19:16, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

## He's Back!!!

19:49, 22 August 2008 DeanS (Talk | contribs) unblocked DinsdaleP (Talk | contribs) ‎ (Mistake - explained by Philip Rayment )

Props to PJR, of whom I will never say a bad word. --SpinyNorman 19:54, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Not even about him agreeing with Andy about you wanting to censor prayer? --Kels 20:06, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Nope. We don't have to agree with each other on topics like that for me to acknowledge that he's been the most fair-minded of the sysops when it comes to blocks and calling out abusive actions by the others there. The difference between him and the others is that he really wants to take differing views head-on and win them over, instead of putting them down or locking them out (as long as the posts stay respectful). -SpinyNorman 20:19, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
But Ed is not as fair-minded :( --BoredCPer 21:33, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

Okay, message to Ed. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU? Man, that guy makes morons look good. --Kels 21:42, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

HaHaHa! Ed has blocked DiEb for personal remarks, the only thing I can see is the argument with "Jinx hi Jinx!". Well done Ed back on top of your game. $\approx$$\pi$ 21:46, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Actually, I'll bet it was this comment, which only an idiot would take as a personal remark, which fits Ed perfectly. I'm betting he doesn't actually understand the axiom and wants to cover up the fact that he's basically a shitty math teacher. Don't worry Ed, we already know. --Kels 21:50, 22 August 2008 (EDT)