Talk:TheAmazingAtheist/Archive5

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This is an archive page, last updated 13 April 2015. Please do not make edits to this page.
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[edit] Change in focus of the article over time

Just going through the fossil record, as you do...does anyone else see a bit of a shift in focus? The article from, say, late 2011/early 2012 contained the usual objective description balanced with snark. The article today appears to focus almost entirely on painting him as a misogynist (by the internet-definition, at least - no semantics please). There is so much more shit that he says that it could be talking about, that such a specific focus seems strange. Also, the article used to hint at the fact that he intentionally tries to be controversial, but this seems to be gone.

Is there any reason for this change in focus, or does it simply reflect a change in userbase? WilderG (talk) 03:17, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Probably because his more assholish behavior became more prominent than any good he might have done previously. EVDebs (talk) 03:35, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
That would only explain a general shift towards "he's an asshole". WilderG (talk) 03:39, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
You know what they say: "you can build a hundred bridges, but if you suck cock once you are a cock-sucker, not a bridge builder". This place does tend to be a bit harsh on anyone who says anything that might be interpreted as misogynistic, but hey, that is how we roll. --DamoHi 03:51, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
we
Okay, it's looking like 'userbase' was the answer. Thanks. WilderG (talk) 03:52, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
You are, of course, part of the userbase, so if you want to make changes go right ahead. Be bold, as it were. If people don't like your changes I'm sure they will be polite. DamoHi 04:25, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Feminism

He's changed his views on feminism now, and he's said that he doesn't object if someone wants to say that he is a feminist. I'd still object, but only because I understand the psychology behind convincing people to identify as a member of one's group. I also wouldn't get pissed about it either, with agreeing with 9/10 things they say, just make some false light accusation and move on. I also gave up completely on watching this guy's videos completely once Youtube increased their video length and he started rambling far more than making fun of idiots. –Inquisitor Sasha (Talk | contribs | block) 17:45, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

[edit] holy shit lol

This article reads like a fucking Encyclopedia Dramatica page. Is this shit supposed to be completely inflammatory? It looks like a bunch of really pissed off teenagers sat down and typed up a long ass rant about how much TJ sucks, and then someone added as an after thought the "not entirely a douche" segment so they could pass off this shit as a wiki page instead of an anonymous letter written for an anger management class. Maybe I'm just unfamiliar with how this place operates, but lmfao. --71.38.138.38 (talk) 20:04, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Seems fine to me. If I remember correctly, it used to be longer and more rambly/Encyclopedia Dramatica–y. — (talk to) [æn əˈmɛɹɪkən ˈnaiːɪlɪst] 06:48, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Age of consent comments

I undid the last edit, simply because no reason was given for its removal. Is it not true? Do you not think it is relevant, etc. If true, to me it shows more of his perspective about women, if not true, of course it should go. Sorry for just "undoing". Green mowse.pngGodot The ablity to breath is such an overrated ability 15:57, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Eh… I'm kind of debating in my mind whether it's relevant or not. I guess it really doesn't matter, and either way he's a shit. — (talk to) [æn əˈmɛɹɪkən ˈnaiːɪlɪst] 19:14, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Again, sorry to pull the trigger so fast. this is one of those articles that gets lots of "but he's not so bad" reverts. I didn't think *you* would do that, but i wasn't sure. Green mowse.pngGodot The ablity to breath is such an overrated ability 04:45, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
I don't like him, but I don't want to unfairly attack by saying "you're an evil pedophile"… but dating a 14-year-old at 23 and wanting to lower the age of consent to 12/13 are pretty extreme even for me. If you combine those with his "extreme pedophilic fantasies", then you might be able to make a good point. I don't know — things are complicated. — (talk to) [æn əˈmɛɹɪkən ˈnaiːɪlɪst] 08:16, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
An age of consent of 13 is not without precedent, even in developed countries. Japan's age of consent is 13, and Spain had an age of consent of 13 up until recently (2009? I can't remember off-hand). Though it's much lower than you're used to, it's not "extreme". 194.132.32.42 (talk) 01:17, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
Just because this seems to come up in every age of consent debate: Japan does not de facto have an age of consent of 13. Each and every prefecture has set higher ages of consent. 13 is just the national minimum, but de facto the AoC is 13 nowhere in Japan. And among the industrialized nations, Spain pretty much is the outlier. Personally, I think when people advocate lowering the AoC to 12 or 13 that is pretty telling and damning. It's a relatively common thing among MRAs, too, so yeah, it fits to him. Octo8 (talk) 17:50, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

[edit] grammar edits?

Can someone explain this edit to me? I'm not sure why "sic" was added, I don't see a problem with the grammar. — Unsigned, by: 86.46.105.174 / talk / contribs

Who knows? Could just be that the quote was copy-pasted from a non-wiki source without the punctuation being corrected to defaults (hence I’m instead of I'm). I've now taken that bit out altogether as the quote wasn't particularly interesting & was being misinterpreted very blatantly (claiming that TAA's comments on veal must apply to all meat). WeaseloidWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 18:30, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Vicious defamation against TheAmazingAtheist

This discussion was moved to User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein. WèàšèìòìďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 06:48, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Libel

The editors are lucky this poor bastard isn't smart enough to file a libel suit. In any case, this page is a ridiculous, internecine hatchet job. It seems clear to me, as a disinterested party, that this page is purely retribution for his critique of feminism. As such it ought to be beneath the dignity of the editors. A more balanced essay could probably be written. Of note, this page makes no acknowledgement of any possible contributions to rationalism and atheism. — Unsigned, by: 76.23.31.171 / talk / contribs

Please sign your talk page contributions (add 4 ~ at the end of them). Anyway, it's only libel if it isn't true. Everything the article lists what TAA has done or said is on public record and well sourced. And considering that - why the FUCK are you supporting a guy who DID say "I think we should give the guy who raped you a medal. I hope you fucking drown in rape semen, you ugly, mean-spirited cow."? Whatever he might have "contributed" to rationalism or atheism pales in comparison to his sheer and pure assholery. We don't do "balanced articles" on assholes, plain and simple. They don't deserve that. But, oh he goes against the evil feminists, so his comments must be justified. Lewis' Law in action, it seems: Comments about feminism justify feminism. Octo8 (talk) 11:18, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Hint, MRA. It's not libel if it's all true.--The Madman (talk) 11:19, 10 February 2014 (UTC)The Madman

Oh snap out of it. I am a...regular watcher of his who agrees with a lot of his points ( saying fan would probably be an overstatement) but this article is not the way it is because he critiques feminism ( though yes, that would probably be enough to make him at least partially unfriedly with this wiki) but because he as very very unconventional ideas of what is an acceptable tone of discussion. He also would never file a sue against this wiki, not because hes to stupid but because he truly thinks that, as long as you DO make oints ad Hominem is absolutly acceptable, one way or the other. And while i don't agree with that assesment he at least follows through with it and does'nt make a fuss about any Insults about him...he just returns the favour. He also hasn't contributed anything great to scepticism and Atheism. He's an atheist and sceptic who offers his thoughts and views on society while trying to evade any predetermind narative as much as he possibly can. I found that his videos, wether i agreed or not, usually offerd another angle and ideas about different subjects and are usually worth checking out ( but then i am a liberal who watches lee Doren for pretty much the same reason.) And i don't think that anyone, even his fans, can maintine that he is a completely normal and functional human beeing. I mean...he himself keeps pointing out that he has a fucked up mode of social interaction.He probably would'nt debate most of what is said in this article.

That said, what does not fit are the links to MRA because...well...he is not an MRA. He has infact pointed out that most MRA's don't really give a fuck about gender politics but simply exist to blame feminists for...everything, focusing only on their own trouble and view point and not doing anything to actually adress gender issues ( which is basically the same criticism he, in my opinion wrongly, offers of modern feminism). Watching his videos on gender issues (not feminism directly) as someone who usually agrees with feminist view points is...an interesting experience really. He usually discerns a lot of patterns and offers a lot of thoughts that would fit into a modern feminist analysis but then manages to come to completly different conclusions. But i digress, case in point, he is not with the MRA crowd. Nekuni (talk) 15:06, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Ah. Well, if you can source your statement, go ahead and edit the article accordingly. Nullahnung (talk) 15:23, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Johnson probably meant the anon who created this subsection with "MRA", not TAA directly. On another note, what is with the current influx of anti-feminist trolls? Octo8 (talk) 15:33, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

OP: I'm a feminist. I don't like hatchet jobs. Subsequently I think many articles on this site are beneath the dignity of its editors. Some are potentially libelous -- good thing this site is such a joke.76.23.31.171 (talk) 20:50, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Parts of the article (e.g. the "e-begging" section) have been added by other drive-by unregistered editors who may or may not have other bones to pick with TAA than feminism. And if you can suggest any specific improvements to make the article less of a "hatchet job" without detracting from the problems with his behaviors, you are welcome to make them.--ZooGuard (talk) 20:58, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Neutrality

I understand that this wiki is liberal, but it looks like this article was vandalized by some people who wanted to put their subjective views on a wiki. There's a lot of derogatory language, and this article even has a header titled "what a guy" this article really needs to be cleaned up.— Unsigned, by: 24.30.76.11 / talk / contribs 03:28, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Please see RationalWiki:SPOV--"Shut up, Brx." 03:55, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

I'd like to address this acticle's clear bias against TheAmazingAtheist. Yes this is fairly accurate in that it does present factual information, but it also comes across as a person attack against him and seems to be written with a negative undertone that is showing extreme contempt. I feel this is a poorly written article, that isn't up to wikipedia standards. Although I know this isn't Wikipedia, do you want to be taken seriously as a site with the name RationalWiki, if you allow non neutral arguments? I hope that someone is on this page right now. Brokenxwing (talk) 05:21, 21 July 2014 (UTC)Brokenxwing

While I do believe that you need to understand that we're not all about neutrality, and that quite a few of this guy's views are… questionable, at best, I do think that the tone can sorta come across as a bit harsh. I'm too lazy, but you could try editing the article, and let the community do the rest. MĖSSIÅH ØF DØØM Cacophonous aura of illness and woeDolan.png 09:36, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

As long as it isn't the What a guy/Feminism/Reddit meltdown section I'd support that. Neutrality isn't "exclude criticism" and his comments and views on sexual assault put his criticisms of Feminism into context. I get the impression he's never properly spoken to a rape survivor before --Drowninginlimbo (talk) 09:43, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Was about to attend the AVFM conference

...but it didn't happen: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=709461975786774&id=123652427701068 --ZooGuard (talk) 08:43, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

It looks like they really wanted him there. He has similar values to them, especially when it comes to sexual assault, so it isn't surprising --Drowninginlimbo (talk) 08:46, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

[edit] The lower decile of online atheism

Fan and detractor. Whoever wins, we all lose - David Gerard (talk) 11:30, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Straw Man

Can you guys show me how he straw mans? I just don't see the straw mans. What arguments is he misrepresenting?— Unsigned, by: 73.34.106.61 / talk / contribs 17:21, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Heavy BIAS. Shame on you "rational"wiki! You are more like uncyclopedia now! At least i get this feeling while reading this article, full of rambling, shaming, naming and bias.

[edit] LOL

You know this website is ultra, ultra liberal when it satirizes liberals that aren't liberal enough.— Unsigned, by: 99.199.53.49 / talk / contribs 08:51, 31 December 2013‎ (UTC)

Or when they're just plain assholes. Wehpudicabok [話] [変] [留] 10:07, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

He is taking a quite vicious tone against feminism. This website is largely pro feminist. So people here don't like him. Also , lets face it, even when you are a fan of his like i am, he is a really, really, anti social person who has a habit of loosing his shit from time to time and go for the jugular of his opponent. I still like him, still think that he does make far more good than bad points and is almost always worth listening to and thinking about. But let's face it....hed has the tactfulness of an turine scale level 10 Asteriod. I don't think he belongs into the bat shit crazy category. He has just not comitted any mental dissonances or fallacys, or belives to justify that. — Unsigned, by: Nekuni / talk / contribs 16:32, 11 January 2014‎ (UTC)

Or maybe... you know. "Liberal and conservative" aren't the only two views people can have so you don't have to add "ultra" to it in order to make it fit. Not to mention that a person can be left-wing on one issue and right-wing on the other (opposed to one social hierarchy and supporting another one). --5.23.206.141 (talk) 11:12, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

WTF!? How can this wiki be pro feminism and at the same time call itself rationalwiki? --193.154.9.83 (talk) 10:02, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

How would it be rational to oppose women's rights? 141.134.75.236 (talk) 10:59, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Women's rights and feminism are not necessarily one and the same thing. Burkean (talk) 04:30, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
and he does not oppose women's rights! Why are you lying? This article is SO fcking biased that makes me dizzy. How you can call yourself RATIONALwiki. Theres more emotions and ideological disgust in this article than rationalism.

And i wondered about why are quotation marks placed around the word feminism. Talk about showing the bias, LOL

[edit] Needs to be more nuanced

I didn't expect this article to be positive coming on to it, he has said and done some nasty stuff and is obviously opposed in many ways to the majority of this forum. However in my opinion this goes too far; he has been an adamant critic of religion, pseudoscience and irrational beliefs, and has always been a huge supporter of the scientific method and investing in science, a virtue that one would think would be the most important of all on a site called "rational wiki'.

Bill Maher on the other hand, who has also criticised feminism (no mention of that on his article whatsoever), and has expressed disbelief in the core principles of modern medicine, in lieu of unfounded pseudoscience, gets an unbiased article. Hell, even Tony Blair, who essentially destroyed the British left wing, gets less hate than this guy.

Alongside his (rightfully)controversial comments he has also made many videos targeted against feminism (or more often specific feminists), and most of the points he makes (in my point of view) are at least somewhat reasonable. He has also made videos criticising conventional gender roles, such as this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhgRS091iiQ

I'm not sure that this will do anything, since others have criticised this article and nothing has come of it, yet I hope that me laying out my arguments and providing of examples could make Rational Wiki ... a little more rational.151.226.128.111 (talk) 15:19, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm so glad I don't play the rationalwiki drinking game. Anyways, those things are mentioned on Maher's page, at least a little. The argument from a double standard wouldn't hold water anyways, because the correct fix for that problem would be to fix the Maher page.
The crux of your argument, however, is that since he's a pro-science atheist, we need to align with him as an ally. That's a little too tribalistic for my thinking. Being hateful and bigoted, regardless of what you agree with me on, is always instant shitlist material. Ikanreed (talk) 15:31, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Bill Maher is an anti-Vaxx Islamophobe who thinks he's intelligent but really isn't, I completely agree. However, the Amazing Athiest is a misogynist prick who argues from his ass and is a toxic human being. I'm black and I don't support morons like Louis Farrakhan, why should I support AA simply because I'm an atheist? If anything, supporting this guy would hurt our community more than help it.BlackProg (talk) 15:36, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Oh man, the damage to our community has long-since been done, though. AA is well known, his toxicity is well known, and he glued atheist to his online identity in a way that will naturally turn peoples' mental associations our way. That doesn't mean I have to let that association be accurate by supporting him. Ikanreed (talk) 16:28, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Actually it is pretty nuanced if you read the whole thing especialy the last bits which quite frankly didnt need to be mentioned. It appears that if you do any thing less that kiss this "subhumans" ass you are being biased. Oh the irony.

[edit] Wait...

No mention of the anal banana incident? Burkean (talk) 22:18, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Why would there be? --Inquisitor (talk) 22:31, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
The article seemed to focus on what a loon he is (one of the few times I agree with rationalwiki). I just thought that might be worth pointing out. Often times rationalwiki will include info on a person that isn't "on mission" because it's funny or reinforces the craziness of person. Burkean (talk) 04:27, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
What.--Madman (talk) 04:32, 19 January 2015 (UTC)The Madman
What do you mean by what? Burkean (talk) 04:56, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Honestly, I don't know how you could include this in any meaningful way. "LOOK THIS GUY SEXED A BANNANA; HE'S CRAZY" just doesn't seem helpful. Cømrade FυzzчCαтPøтαтø (talk/stalk) 05:05, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Often times, rationalwiki discusses bizarre behavior of people they talk about without it being on mission. I wasn't saying it should be done in a way to judge him, or say there is something wrong with it, or to bash homosexuality (if it was homosexual), I just meant as a joke. Political differences aside, has rationalwiki completely lost its sense of humor? Burkean (talk) 09:09, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
It's funny. You can add it if you want. I don't care. Cømrade FυzzчCαтPøтαтø (talk/stalk) 19:31, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Please don't. We're not a gossip website and frankly it even goes beyond our boundaries. Zero (talk - contributions) 19:34, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

It is somehting he admitted himself, if that matters in terms of gossip. Cømrade FυzzчCαтPøтαтø (talk/stalk) 20:02, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
It's something somebody leaked. & It has nothing to do with our missions. €₳$£ΘĪÐWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 13:39, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
RW is not ED. TAA is here because of a) him being an atheist 'Tuber celebrity, and b) him being a clueless asshole. Everything else is irrelevant. Whatever he does to get off is not RW's business.--ZooGuard (talk) 09:19, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Making a joke about it wouldn't have to involve ridiculing or making fun of him (although he often does that to other people). Rationalwiki has frequently made jokes about the sexual practices of people they write articles about. Why should TJ be an exception? Burkean (talk) 19:32, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
Because he's not hypocritical about it? Zero (talk - contributions) 19:39, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

[edit] I thought this side was suppose to me objective?

Let me start of by saying; I am not a MRA nor am I fanboy. I do not enjoy these videos anymore than you do. However I feel like this wiki has gone over the top. This is suppose to be a catalog of knowledge! Not of bigotry. Even if he does insult your views, this should still be an objective site. With information rather than insults. The most of these quotes are taken out of context, to spin a story about a "vile man", blaming suicide, rape and murder victims. A VILE misogynist and a hater of all good things.

Yet this is far from the truth. He has said many "I am all for equality". He has said "the suicide of young people is tragic". He has on more than one occasion stood up for people who have been raped. Called out the rapist as someone who needs to be punished. Yet you do not see that. And yet again I MUST remind you; I am not a fanboy, I am not a MRA. I just find it appalling what this site has come to. This should be an objective site, NOT a way to throw your opinion out in public domain. But hey what do I know?

I pray you have any human decency and rewrite this article, to better accommodate this site, which I used to hold in such high regards.

(I sincerly apologize for my flawed english. I am not a native speaker.) — Unsigned, by: Ben3b / talk / contribs 08:31, 28 January 2015‎ (UTC)

You must have never read any of the articles before. No one really cares. --Someon (talk) 08:48, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
If you believe that a specific portion of the article is incorrect, please quote that portion of the article and provide counterevidence. Cømrade FυzzчCαтPøтαтø (talk/stalk)

00:47, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

I would quote entire article and demand YOU provide any evidence!

Rationalwiki my a..

enough said :(

Oh, sorry, are the inline citations not evidence of at least a portion of the articles' claims? We include them for a reason. "I reject it wholesale because bias" is half the comments rationalwiki gets about, well, anything. Ikanreed (talk) 06:46, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
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