Draft talk:Sneako

Citations

The links are not formatted, and it is unwise to use Twitter links as citations since the platform's future is uncertain. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 22:00, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

I'll get to them when I can. Right now, I'm trying to expand the article. Rational Dude (talk) 23:12, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

I always recommend doing it as you go. Then you don’t get stuck with the busywork of formatting like 50 citations. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 23:27, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Islam isn't a monolithic block

If all Muslims were reactionary Wahhabis that'd be one thing, but they aren't. Hence seen as. Carthage (talk) 15:34, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I never said all Muslims are reactionary. I’m saying that most Muslims are traditionalists and often hold misogynistic and homophobic views like there is in the Quran. Rational Dude (talk) 15:37, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Islam is a religion with over a billion adherents. And there are, and feel free to ignore this, viable Islamic social and progressive political movements. Carthage (talk) 15:43, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I never ignored or denied that. But from what I’ve seen online, many traditional Muslims oppose progressive Muslims and follow the word of the Quran strongly, like with Christians and Jews who also follow old views of their own holy books. Rational Dude (talk) 15:51, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

The reality is not as simple as you say it is. Even in Taliban-held Afghanistan there is strong feminist resistance to Taliban misogyny. To say that Muslims generally hold reactionary views is misleading in the light of both progressive Muslim movements and areas of highly secular Muslim majority areas like Kosovo, Albania, and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Carthage (talk) 15:55, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Or the existence of Cultural Muslims who tend to be more progressive than conservative Muslims. Several Muslim-majority countries exist where the majority of people are non-practicing or only practice irregularly. Carthage (talk) 15:59, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I know, they’re mentioned in the article for the taliban. But in the case of sneako’s fan base, many people who adhere to Islam hate women and gay people, and that’s the point I’m trying to make. Rational Dude (talk) 16:03, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Then put "Islam is generally seen as". That's not contradictory to your point. I'm a cultural Muslim too. My contention is that your point makes it seem like Islam is inherently reactionary, when in fact there's a strong and viable progressive and even secular community in the wider Umma. Carthage (talk) 16:04, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

You probably should’ve told me that in the first place. I thought you were trying to imply that Islam isn’t reactionary because that’s a racist criticism or something, when that wasn’t my point. Rational Dude (talk) 16:32, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I thought I made myself pretty clear when I said "it ignores the existence of strong and viable progressive communities in the Muslim world." Carthage (talk) 16:35, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Not really, it seemed like you were deflecting. You should clarify your positions next time. Rational Dude (talk) 16:48, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

How is "If all Muslims were reactionary Wahhabis that'd be one thing, but they aren't. Hence 'seen as'." deflecting? Carthage (talk) 20:25, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I mean this whole scene you made. It looked like you were trying to pretend Islam has no flaws or something. Rational Dude (talk) 18:53, 22 August 2023 (UTC)