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User talk:DuceMoosolini
Passive aggressive edit summary
You may note that GeeJayK on User talk:Umaru16 was very helpful in not only suggesting that I format my citations but provided a link to a page on how to do that. In a friendly edit like this, I am made aware of how I can improve and shown how to do it. This is helpful. Also, his comments motivate me to contribute more to the website. Your passive aggressive edit summary has the opposite effect in both senses. ShabiDOO 00:11, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
- Shabi, you’re an adult and you’ve been here for years. Dropping bare links into article references because you can’t be bothered to put some brackets and a title and source is less than I expect from a long-time user. Hinduism is an article that’s on my watchlist, and I tend to keep a closer eye on the general quality of the articles on my watchlist. Your bare URLs created extra work for me. If you can’t handle my very mild complaining about that extra work, then I’m very sorry about that. But you and I are both peers; neither of us is above or below the other. It is not my job to coddle you or tip-toe around your feelings. There are formatting guides all over the wiki. It is not the responsibility of myself or any other user to hold your hand and lead you, an established yearslong editor, to them. And frankly, your message itself is hypocritical, after you threw a fit over me merely reminding you of a Board meeting on your talk page.
DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW
dictatormoderator 03:11, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
Shinzo Abe and Xi Jinping is fascist.
While some Western scholars, like Robert Paxton, like to brand Western right-wing politicians like Donald Trump as "fascists," Xi or Abe do not call them "fascists." However, it is based on a racial bias that fascism cannot be established because Asia is pre-modern.
Donald Trump is not a totalitarian dictator, but Xi Jinping is a totalitarian dictator. Donald Trump does not deny the Holocaust, but Shinzo Abe denies Japanese war crimes. Above all, China ("Chiangism") and Japan ("Showa Statism") have a history of fascism that actually came to power, but the United States does not. Trump refers to "nationalist" even in the liberal media, but Abe or Xi refers to it as "ultra-nationalist". The two authoritarians in Asia resemble more classical fascism than Trump.
Crucially, I suggested the source that Abe or Xi is a "fascist." Stop removing categories.
I'm a trans-lesbian, I hate Trumpism very much. My mom supports the "liberal" Minjoo Party of Korea(DPK) in South Korea; she can't accept that transgender people can be lesbians, and she has become nervously angry, accusing my gender identity of being "psychotic". (I don't support DPK, I support the Justice Party (South Korea)) The DPK in South Korea is just as intolerant to LGBT as Trump; the difference is that the DPK supports democracy politically.
I don't know why the U.S. media and academia are tolerant of bigots in Asia and strict with American conservatives. I heard hate speech from my mom yesterday, but she is discriminated against even at work because there is no civil rights law or anti-discrimination law in South Korea. Asia is more conservative than you might imagine. I think the American right wing is much less fascistic than the South Korean/Japanese right wing or Chinese Communist Party. Umaru16 (talk) 23:14, 4 February 2025 (UTC)
- You’ve listed zero reasons why Abe should be in the fascism category, apart from his war crimes apologia, which is frankly far more of a nationalism thing than a fascist one. I don’t care how much you or anyone else in South Korea hates Abe. Fascism is a word with a definition, and I will treat it as such. It’s not just an insult to toss at anyone you don’t like. That would be silly and hysterical behavior.
DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW
dictatormoderator 00:39, 5 February 2025 (UTC)- Those who deny the Holocaust and praise the Nazis are fascists. Likewise, those who deny Japanese war criminals and praise the Japanese Empire are fascists. If you were a American in the 1950s, you would define Trump as not a fascist, but Abe as a fascist. Paxton is a pro-Japanese/anti-Korean bigot. Umaru16 (talk) 01:57, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
- I rather think Trump is not a fascist, and Abe is a fascist. Because ultranationalism is an integral part of classical fascism. Even in the media, Trump isn't referred to as an "ultranationalist," but Abe is referred to as an "ultranationalist." Umaru16 (talk) 02:03, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
- Apologia for something does not make a person that thing. Otherwise Putin would be a communist and Trump would be a Dixiecrat slave-owner. Now, denial of things is certainly a warning sign of fascism, but I have yet to see any other compelling reasons to list Abe as a fascist. RationalWiki is not a place to hash out your silly Korea-vs-Japan nationalist grievances. It is a place for the truth.
DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW
dictatormoderator 14:17, 5 February 2025 (UTC)- Shinzo's already in the category of "Shōwa Statism", which fits *much* better. Why does it need to be in fascism as well? I would also support adding Shinzo to the "authoritarianism" category as well, even if in his case it's not full blown.
- "Fascism", being a very 1930s term, technically really doesn't fit a lot of Western (or other similar) politicians that get labeled such completely. But I don't think a great common term has emerged yet to fit together politicians of similar mold (your Trumps, Bolsonaros, Orbans, Modis, etc.) It's clear there are many parallels, but also some key differences, to 1930s fascism in this group. "Ruscism" is maybe the closest I've heard, and it fits, given that Putin's the center of this world cancer in many ways. But it's not really in common use yet. BobJohnson (talk) 14:44, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
- Subcategory "Shōwa Statists" of category "Shōwa Statism" does not exist. Above all, the legacy of Japanese ultranationalism. Japanese ultranationalism is classical fascism, and Trumpism has little in common with classical fascism. Umaru16 (talk) 21:31, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
- If you want to be strict, Japan's WWII emperor rule actually is excluded from some "fascism" lists I see (though I'd personally have no problem with putting that in). The National Fascist Party in Italy is the only party I can think of that self-described themselves as fascists. Most people include Germany's Nazi party. It gets kind of muddy on which governments make people's lists from there on out. Like, was Augusto Pinochet a fascist or not? Good question. Some think so. Some don't. (There are plenty that think so, though, so the tag there is not problematic.)
- I'd actually be more convinced to remove the "fascist" label from many of our articles rather than the other way around. I understand why many of them got labeled that way, but in many cases, alternative labels will work better. For example, "Trumpism" for now is a much better category for many of the American politicians and pundits currently with the "fascist" tag (even though there are some characteristics of fascism in the Republican party, it is not fully 1930s style fascism... yet). True fascism was fully authoritarian, with a fully controlled national media, ultranationalism, Other scapegoating (to the point of concentration camps in many cases), religious / corporate / government intertwining, cronyism, and a fully suppressed artistic and intellectual scene.
- Very few of these apply to the LDP, from my perspective, even in its most authoritarian nationalist form. Scientists and artists and anyone else that could aren't fleeing Japan because they are of the wrong opinion, the wrong religion, or simply create art that is afoul of the Dear Leader's remit. Intellectuals don't have to worry about being executed. Camps aren't being created to house political dissidents or merely those who are not the right social construct. There is no Final Solution in Japan. These are the type of things that tie together Hitler and Mussolini (and even here there are significant differences between the two). BobJohnson (talk) 22:01, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
- Subcategory "Shōwa Statists" of category "Shōwa Statism" does not exist. Above all, the legacy of Japanese ultranationalism. Japanese ultranationalism is classical fascism, and Trumpism has little in common with classical fascism. Umaru16 (talk) 21:31, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
- DuceMoosolini : Nobusuke Kishi was a real "fascist" bureaucrat in Manchukuo. Abe defends his grandfather's legacy; since Putin is a right-wing politician, defending the Soviet Union is an imperialist view, not a socialist one. However, Abe is an ultra-conservative who inherited Nobusuke's fascism. Among the forces driving the nationalist conflict between Korea and Japan, the former is closer to Biden and the latter to Trump. Not all nationalism is qualitatively the same. Dish, if you were an American in the 1950s, you would call Abe a fascist rather than Trump. Japan is politically right-wing, and they are lobbying American academia as if they are neutral. Umaru16 (talk) 21:18, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
- Yes, Abe was an ultra-conservative. No, he didn't "inherit" his grandfather's fascism. And note, I have not said anything at all during this conversation about Trump being a fascist.
DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW
dictatormoderator 21:43, 5 February 2025 (UTC)
- Yes, Abe was an ultra-conservative. No, he didn't "inherit" his grandfather's fascism. And note, I have not said anything at all during this conversation about Trump being a fascist.
- Apologia for something does not make a person that thing. Otherwise Putin would be a communist and Trump would be a Dixiecrat slave-owner. Now, denial of things is certainly a warning sign of fascism, but I have yet to see any other compelling reasons to list Abe as a fascist. RationalWiki is not a place to hash out your silly Korea-vs-Japan nationalist grievances. It is a place for the truth.
Norman Cantor's The Civilization of the Middle Ages
My wife just gave me this book. I didn't know the author, so I did what I always do when I don't know someone: I searched on Wikipedia. Wikipedia told me that he was a conservative historian. This is, of course, not a bad thing by itself—putting tankies and Nazis aside, there are good historians across the whole political spectrum—but it makes me wonder if he might try to present the Middle Ages as some sort of Golden Age. Wikipedia also says that the book was published in the 1960s, which makes me wonder whether it is outdated. On the other hand, RationalWiki gave me a couple of results, and I noticed that the book was used in the Holy Roman Empire article, that you wrote. So, does that mean it's a good book? Can I trust what the author says while reading it? GeeJayKWhere all evil dwells Where every lie is true 22:32, 22 February 2025 (UTC)
- There's a revised edition from like 1994 I think that should be more up to date. I haven't seen anything that would make me suspicious of the book's quality or intent, but I also only cited it for a basic factoid because I couldn't find anything else specifically about Otto becoming the King of Italy. So that was a Wikipedia cite that I pulled. I don't remember much else about my thought process.
DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW
dictatormoderator 13:59, 24 February 2025 (UTC)- Got it. Thanks. GeeJayKWhere all evil dwells Where every lie is true 15:01, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
- If you want a good history book recommendation (although about a very different time period), I just got done reading Apostles of Disunion by Charles B. Dew. It's an analysis of the South's secession commissioners, who went around to other states to encourage secession in winter 1860. Dew then points out that the arguments used by the commissioners completely debunk any notion that the Civil War was about anything other than slavery and white supremacy.
DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW
dictatormoderator 15:07, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
- If you want a good history book recommendation (although about a very different time period), I just got done reading Apostles of Disunion by Charles B. Dew. It's an analysis of the South's secession commissioners, who went around to other states to encourage secession in winter 1860. Dew then points out that the arguments used by the commissioners completely debunk any notion that the Civil War was about anything other than slavery and white supremacy.
- Got it. Thanks. GeeJayKWhere all evil dwells Where every lie is true 15:01, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
Don't rewrite my stuff.
I wouldn't if the entry wasn't so long it took up a large % of my phone screen... KarmaPolice (talk) 16:55, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
- Long WIGOs happen all the time. Don't rewrite my WIGOs, please.
DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW
dictatormoderator 17:24, 7 March 2025 (UTC)- That is a weak answer and you know it. RW is already fairly shit an experience on mobiles and bloated entry descs make it even worse. And hell, I only tightened the desc, not actually changing it's meaning. KarmaPolice (talk) 18:14, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
- My answer isn't going to change. Long WIGOs are done all the time. You're making this a bigger deal than it has to be.
DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW
dictatormoderator 18:26, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
- My answer isn't going to change. Long WIGOs are done all the time. You're making this a bigger deal than it has to be.
- That is a weak answer and you know it. RW is already fairly shit an experience on mobiles and bloated entry descs make it even worse. And hell, I only tightened the desc, not actually changing it's meaning. KarmaPolice (talk) 18:14, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
Vox
What is the argument for reverting the edit to Vox about their accepting funds from people and groups that they go on to report very kindly? That sort of shinola is not customary in my country but I don't understand US aristocratic culture or US defamation law. Polydamas (talk)
- Didn't mean to do that. I was doing a mass rollback of vandalism, and I misclicked.
DuceMoosoliniYour friendly RW
dictatormoderator 16:14, 14 March 2025 (UTC) - Great, I understand that you can't comment every time you revert vandalism (and I don't grok the NYJ journalism / magazine scene) Polydamas (talk) 19:48, 14 March 2025 (UTC)