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Essay talk:Workplace democracy
Workers are paid, shareholders pay in. You don't see an inequality there? nobs 12:57, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Don't shareholder get dividends from their companies ? Diacelium (talk) 13:13, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Of coarse, that's why they paid in in the first place. (Note:sometimes a corporation doesn't pay dividends as a way to accumulate more capital, so it can grow and expand and hire more people. "Retained earnings"). What sacrifices have workers made other than their labor, for which they are paid fairly under a voluntary contract? nobs 14:05, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Well, I think labor is more important than a "sacrifice". And I already explained, work is not voluntary, you work or you are homeless, and there is no real choice of jobs since the "choice" is made according to one's qualifications. Diacelium (talk) 14:09, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- In a legal sense, that argument isn't true. No one forces anyone to accept employment at gunpoint. You are describing someone with emotional problems or warped sense of fairness. If someone does not believe in, or respect, the property rights of others (the owners of the business), why would they want to get paid? Why are they so selfish about their own property rights? nobs 14:15, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- So psychological coercion is just fine ? "why do they want to get paid" because they fucking die if they don't. Also, what is selfish about wanting more power in a system that takes all your freedom ? Diacelium (talk) 14:30, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- In virtually 99.998% of cases, a prospective employee responds to an employers solicitation for employment. Employers, in most of the civilized world, do not round up people on the street and press them into service. These are two principal elements of contract
- offer for employment, and the willful acceptance by an employee. nobs 21:23, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- In virtually 99.998% of cases, a prospective employee responds to an employers solicitation for employment. Employers, in most of the civilized world, do not round up people on the street and press them into service. These are two principal elements of contract
- So psychological coercion is just fine ? "why do they want to get paid" because they fucking die if they don't. Also, what is selfish about wanting more power in a system that takes all your freedom ? Diacelium (talk) 14:30, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- In a legal sense, that argument isn't true. No one forces anyone to accept employment at gunpoint. You are describing someone with emotional problems or warped sense of fairness. If someone does not believe in, or respect, the property rights of others (the owners of the business), why would they want to get paid? Why are they so selfish about their own property rights? nobs 14:15, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Well, I think labor is more important than a "sacrifice". And I already explained, work is not voluntary, you work or you are homeless, and there is no real choice of jobs since the "choice" is made according to one's qualifications. Diacelium (talk) 14:09, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Of coarse, that's why they paid in in the first place. (Note:sometimes a corporation doesn't pay dividends as a way to accumulate more capital, so it can grow and expand and hire more people. "Retained earnings"). What sacrifices have workers made other than their labor, for which they are paid fairly under a voluntary contract? nobs 14:05, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
This is all rather vague[edit]
I mean just what kind of say do you think workers should have? Working conditions like pay or hours? Health and safety? Day to day working practice? How and who the business works with?
Also, i still fail to see why workers, if adequately renumerated for their work as per the contract they agreed to when taking employment, are entitled to to any say. They are after all paid for tbeir work. Thats the deal.
This is all besides the fact thats workers generally are asked for their input. Certainly wbere it pertains to the part of the business where they are involved. That doesnt mean it is acted upon.
Also, trade unions exist. AMassiveGay (talk) 14:38, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Does your average burger flipper have any say over their pay, over their hours? Most people don't have any choice but to sell their labor or starve. It doesn't seem like a fair deal. — Oxyaena Harass 14:55, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Maybe you should try self employment[edit]
Just saying AMassiveGay (talk) 22:57, 8 March 2017 (UTC)