Talk:Apollonian and Dionysian

Find ONE FACTUAL Errror in this article, I dares, ya

This article is shit. It's not only unreadable, but irrelevant to any mission statement. Userfy or bust. Occasionaluse (talk) 21:52, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I also hate ListenerX and think that everything he does on this website should be destroyed. SJ ^Debaser 21:58, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Kaboom KABOOM KABOOOOM!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! --Idiot numbre 188 (talk) 22:01, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Animosity towards LX aside, seriously, this article sucks a bag of dicks. It's sole purpose is as a tangent from his essays, so I'd be fine with putting it in Essay. Occasionaluse (talk) 22:00, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Animosity against me aside, you have said nothing substantial so far. ListenerX^TalkerX 22:06, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

The claim has been made that this has nothing to do with the mission. Disprove or delete. Occasionaluse (talk) 22:07, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Anything to do with Nietzsche has relevance to the authoritarianism plank. Paglia has, I think, ventured into crank territory with it. ListenerX^TalkerX 22:12, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Just because you can tie your Red string to authoritarianism doesn't mean this article (or concept) has anything to do with it. It doesn't. It's just a rambling description of a philosophical dichotomy. Nothing to do with the mission. Why not just essay/userfy? Occasionaluse (talk) 22:14, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

ListenerX^TalkerX 03:56, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

"Anything to do with Nietzsche has relevance to the authoritarianism plank." No. The subject matter of the article itself needs to be relevant to a specific plank of the mission. Is the "Apollonian and Dionysian" related to authoritarianism? Slightly, perhaps. There might also be a tenuous connection to the Dionysian nature of some woo. Blue (pester) 05:14, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Most New Age dreck falls under the Dionysian banner. Jung argued that Nazism did so as well. The dichotomy also plays around in rather weird ways as far as Christianity is concerned, which is useful when examining the syncretic influences.

I submit, however, that a large number of the articles in our philosophy category would probably be thrown out if we were to insist upon anything more than a tenuous connection to the mission planks. ListenerX^TalkerX 05:49, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

That's true. I move to dismiss the missionality challenge. Blue (pester) 21:51, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Good article

Some thought-provoking stuff that might take some out of their comfort zones (good!). I appreciate the summary of Camille Paglia's ideas, which provide some insight into gender roles through the different drives of men and women that arise from their early identity-building experiences. Mom is the closest, most powerful figure in early childhood. Little girls are just like mom so the little girl's identity is ok with the world as she knows it. Little boys are confronted with their first existential crisis when they realize they're something different from mom. So begins the quest to find out who they are, seek role models, make their mark, and generally justify themselves. It has both positive and negative manifestations. Arguably, the instinctive protection and direction of resources towards females, arising from the absolute necessity in early human societies to nurture female reproductive capacity, reinforces the imperative for males to justify themselves through works. Females are human beings. Males are human doings.

There's no page on Camille Paglia, which is a shame because she delivered a very important challenge to second wave feminism while maintaining a feminist outlook.

Japanese culture is interesting for the way it manages the coexistence of its strongly Dionesian and Apollonian aspects. The Shinto cosmology is female centered. The sensual goddess of celebration threw a party to coax the maternal sun goddess out of the cave she was hiding in when she was depressed, originating the seasonal rhythms of the earth. Buddhism and Confucianism strengthened the Apollonian side of Japanese culture. The Meiji period had a very Apollonian imperative of bringing Japan into the modern world, while maintaining "Japanese spirit" with its Dionysian, female-centered view embodied in Shinto, the Japanese "religion of the heart." Official public announcements are made with a maternal female voice. There's an omnipresent, disembodied mother goddess looking after all her children as they take care of their daily business in Apollonian Japanese fashion. The structured, controlled, Apollonian aspects of Japanese life are notorious, but when the right social cue is given the Japanese can go into Dionysian revelry completely without shame.75.111.20.66 (talk) 21:17, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Absolutely biased shite.

Paglia's section does not have nearly enough criticism from feminist scholars; the one ad-hominem from Steinem simply won't do. This section is obviously slanted toward her evidence-devoid, questionably subjective sexist interpretations of art. Her work is regressive, reactionary and panders to the right-wing.