Talk:Jimmy Carter

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Obligatory Simpson's quote

"He's history's greatest monster!" MDB (talk) 13:00, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Abortion

I felt the article should mention that Carter is pro-life. I was going to put this bit under the section "Legacy," but I thought it might be better if it had its own section, so I put it just before the section on his legacy. The legacy section seems more like a closing section, but the abortion bit deals more with his post-presidency activism than his presidential policy, so I'm still undecided as to where it ultimately belongs. The One They Call Mars (talk) 00:26, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Deregulation

Perhaps instead of pushing a blatantly neoliberal viewpoint onto this article, we should examine the effects that the deregulation of the airlines industry had, both good and bad? It's a fact that deregulation was a major blow to unions and therefore airline workers. It also lead to airport congestion and led to the monopolization of the airline industry. Good for competition it was not.

To quote the cited article (for the labor angle): "Struggling to survive, airlines cut wages and benefits, but this strategy resulted in strikes and lower productivity. Operations were streamlined and thousands of employees laid off. Some feared these efforts would compromise safety, especially if necessary maintenance was deferred to save money, but these fears proved groundless." Vee^Meow? 18:25, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Do you have sources on that? Also, I don't see how proctecting inefficient companies is good for workers? It is indeed good for a bunch of rich white dudes though. GeeJayK^{Where all evil dwells} _{Where every lie is true} 18:28, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

It's a direct quote from the article I cited (courtesy of the National Air and Space Museum). Vee^Meow? 18:29, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

(EC) Also, it's not true that the deregulation destroyed jobs. People just found jobs elsewher. The unemployment rate didn't change because of that. This is almost a luddite approach. GeeJayK^{Where all evil dwells} _{Where every lie is true} 18:31, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

With regards to the airline industry, jobs and wages were cut. Whether or not people found jobs elsewhere is irrelevant. Vee^Meow? 18:32, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

It is relevant, because, if people weren't worse off with the deregulation, then it's just an ad hoc statement. We do know, as my source says, that the American people overall are better off. People travel by airplanes three times more than before, are tariffs are lower. Regarding competition, according to your own link (which, unlike mine, is not peer-reviewed): "Established airlines rushed to gain or preserve access to the most lucrative routes. New airlines quickly formed. Fierce competition resulted and drove fares down. Passengers flocked to airports in record numbers. (...) . To sidestep competition, it moved into satellite airports of major cities. Southwest became a model for a new generation of airlines. " GeeJayK^{Where all evil dwells} _{Where every lie is true} 18:38, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Are we going to hinder technological progress because, in the short term, it destroys jobs (despite creating many others in the long term)? GeeJayK^{Where all evil dwells} _{Where every lie is true} 18:43, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

This one is also interesting. [1] It says that there's evidence showing an increase in the number of competing airlines, from 39 to 95 between 1978 and 1998, which contradicts our article. I don't see how the airline deregulation was bad for competition. You can (if I recall what an old professor told me in college ten years ago) that the service provided was better before the deregulation. Since companies couldn't compete by setting lower prices, they competed by providing better services. One airline had a piano bar in one of their planes for the first-class, for instance. GeeJayK^{Where all evil dwells} _{Where every lie is true} 19:06, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ This paper states that on average wages decreased after deregulation. Obviously the effects of deregulation were not all hunky-dory for labor. Disregarding the fact that we're talking about one specific industry, not the entire economy, the overall trend demonstrates that airline labor was negatively effected by the deregulation of the airline industry. Vee^Meow? 19:17, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, there's some evidence of that, this article by Nobel Memorial Prize David Card seems better and apparently shares this conclusion. [2] While I personally see this as just a minor trade-off (every public policy has losers, and we don't talk about them in every page), I believe that the evidence shows that, for most of the American population, the deregulation was good. I won't dispute if you want to put that on the article but it's, IMO, amost as irrelevant as saying that people who wanted a piano bar in their lower decks now cannot have one because the quality in the first-class decreased. GeeJayK^{Where all evil dwells} _{Where every lie is true} 19:32, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Deal, and done. Vee^Meow? 19:46, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Fine, I'll also write about how the qualities of the flights dropped. GeeJayK^{Where all evil dwells} _{Where every lie is true} 19:56, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Revert

@Vee Care to explain why you reverted my edit to that unsourced gibberish? GeeJayK^{Where all evil dwells} _{Where every lie is true} 18:26, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

See above. Vee^Meow? 18:26, 20 February 2023 (UTC)