Talk:Libertarian paradise

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Moresnet

Would the Neutral Territory have counted - see [1].

I read somewhere that, for many years, due to a quirk in the 1929 Treaty the corridor linking the Vatican and the Castel Sant'Angelo was effectively in neither Italy nor the Vatican State. Anna Livia (talk) 23:51, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Sounds like it, but it preceded the concept. Bongolian (talk) 02:56, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Moresnet is now too obscure for a RW mention in its own right. Anna Livia (talk) 11:06, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Sealand

Are they libertarian? Chillpilled (talk) 04:45, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

I added a clarification for that. Thanks! Bongolian (talk) 05:01, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Liechtenstein

I'm not sure whether this is of interest, but apparently Prince Hans-Adam is a personal friend of Hans-Hermann Hoppe, though they seem to not be on exactly the same page when it comes to certain topics (such as gay people or even democracy). Chillpilled (talk) 22:37, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure either. Hoppe is mentioned as the Prince's friend on WP, but there's no mention of Hoppe in the Liechtenstein section of Crack-Up Capitalism, while Hoppe is mentioned several other places in the book. Bongolian (talk) 23:13, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Bir Tawil

Would a mention of this place and other 'locations of no or multiple claims' be appropriate? Anna Livia (talk) 12:07, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

I suppose so. I hadn't seen it mentioned before among reports of libertarian land-grabbers. The Guardian article indicates that "King" Heaton had libertarian intent.[2] He'll have to fight off the nomads who pass through, the neighboring governments and at least two other pretenders to the "throne".[3][4] Bongolian (talk) 15:43, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Seasteading

I wonder if this could actually work self sufficiently with enough planning. The thing is even if you did get it to work it'd probably end up a bit miserable to live on at least compared to main civilization. And the libertarian-capitalist mindset seems to lend itself to property rights over personal rights oftentimes which would only inflame that. Even if you manage to solve the problem of needing to dock for fuel you would need a source of materials for repairs. Chillpilled (talk) 21:11, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

A successful example of a community that entirely exists on floating islands is the Uru people, a small tribal group on a lake on the border of Bolivia and Peru. This group is entirely self-sustaining, so it can work. I will note that they are not on the high seas, which typically is a much harsher environment with less resources available (to start: Lake Titicaca, the lake this tribe lives on, is a freshwater lake.)

Generally speaking, my impression is that seasteading projects have been far more about ideology (typically libertarian ideology) and fail pretty hard at the practical "nuts and bolts" aspect. I think that a "seasteading" project of the type libertarians probably would desire could work in practice *if* it is sufficiently connected to society in some way to provide the "nuts and bolts" (eg materials, water, food, etc.), but it would be hella expensive to provide the comforts of modern civilization on such an environment IMHO. Since escaping government is the desire of many of these projects, that's likely not going to happen, anyways. If the "seastead" actually is more lake based, I think some sort of communal live-off-the-land approach *could* work as well (ala the Uru people). But as a lot of seasteading dreams are fueled by people used to ultra-wealthy lifestyles, they would need to downscale their expectations considerably (and, of course, act more as a tribal culture instead of as a self-centered one). BobJohnson (talk) 22:48, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

There are groups of people in Southeast Asia who live partly or mostly at sea, e.g., the Sama-Bajau. They're not independent of the land though. There have been cases of Westerners living on a 'desert' island for extended periods of time for non-ideological reasons, e.g., the book Castaway by Lucy Irvine. Bongolian (talk) 01:08, 4 January 2024 (UTC)