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User talk:Bongolian

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Attention trolls: Don't bother me here. I am busy impersonating Rob Smith on Gab.

Ideologically motivated blocking[edit]

I have been faced with multiple unannounced and unexplained blocks based on vague accusations of whitewashing, (providing more detail on the relationship between Catholicism and the Right during the first half of the twentieth century by using recognized historical sources), it seems as though I am being censored for providing info that doesn`t agree with the ideology of many of the editors, but I have consistently remained neutral, provided sources and stayed polite. I had hoped rationalwiki would encourage constructive dialogue not censorship of those who mention that Pope Pius XII supported Claus von Stauffenberg. Is it whitewashing to reject the claim that Pius XII was a Fascist? Or to note the distinction between Integralism and Fascism? Does one need to support the myth pushed by the KGB that Conservative Catholicism=Fascism in order to not be banned for whitewashing? I had read that rationalwiki does not have ideological bans and I also read I could alert sysops so I thought I would do so. JohnLogan (talk) 14:00, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

@JohnLogan Instead of bothering an individual moderator, I suggest you take your issues to the moderator noticeboard. Thanks, Cosmikdebris (talk) 15:40, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Content Reversal[edit]

Why was my quote at the Anarchism page reversed? The quote by Alan Moore is much more famous than the one from Thomas Hoobe, and is much more direct to the point than his, who is filled with bias since Hoobes is a well-know absolutist with a very outdated view on anarchism, that not only misses the entire point on anarchism but also sees it as a state of "pure chaos", which anarchism isn't. --TheOne (talk) 23:31, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

@TheOne, I've heard of the Hobbes quote, but not the Moore quote. Also, the Hobbes quote had a citation, but the Moore quote did not. You can add the Moore quote with a citation, or if you want the the Hobbes quote removed, you can argue for its removal on the talk page. Bongolian (talk) 23:54, 25 January 2020 (UTC)


I wrote this and it's now finished as a draft: Draft:A New Radical Centrism could you move this to A New Radical Centrism? Job (talk) 20:21, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

@Job Done. Bongolian (talk) 20:48, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Bug in the Banned template[edit]

There was an errant <div> in the {{Banned}} template that was causing the categories at the bottom of the page to be displayed in large typeface. I got rid of the offending tag in the template, and it seems to be fine now. Cosmikdebris (talk) 03:44, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing it! Bongolian (talk) 04:08, 17 February 2020 (UTC)


Thank you for your edits on Conflict of interest! It's definitely an improvement. Luna Rose I'm shy; say hi 15:23, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

You're welcome, @QuietLuna. I appreciate your edits on RW! Bongolian (talk) 17:01, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

My apologies[edit]

I uh am sorry for my rudeness earlier, I was irritable and that was uncalled for, but Bernie being a Russian asset.... come on, seriously? β€” Oxyaena Harass 23:25, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

There's really no need to apologize for anything, @Oxyaena. I respect that you have different opinions than I do, I really do. With regard to Bernie, there's really no doubt that he at least falls into the unwitting asset category. Both the Mueller Report and the current State Department have confirmed this, so you'd have to be in denial about both of them to think otherwise. If nothing else, the support likely comes from bots, trolls, and disinformation originating from Russia. Unwitting assets are a normal part of tradecraft (see Agent handling Β§ Agents, spotting, and recruitmentWikipedia), and there's a recently-revealed case of a large-scale CIA espionage operation, which employed people who did not know that they were employed by a CIA front company, and consequently put some of the employees' lives in danger without their knowledge.[1] Bongolian (talk) 23:47, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
I mean, you have to look at the pros and cons here. Bernie's pros far outweigh his cons imo, the one thing I really take him to task for is the fact he's a zionist. β€” Oxyaena Harass 12:33, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
For me, there is no pro that is going to outweigh Bernie's being a Russian asset. Bernie's so-called pros are paper-thin in the form of policies, not actions anyway. Bongolian (talk) 19:32, 23 February 2020 (UTC)


At least, as privately as you can manage on a wiki. Fuck you. That saloon bar shit is seriously dishonest.

The context of your deep up your rectum googling makes it crystal goddamn clear that term was not being used synonymously with being gay, nor as a slur.

The fact that you're going to such lengths to smear someone dishonestly like this just fills me with contempt.

Where's your integrity? Why would you waste so much time and effort on something where you're so totally in the wrong? It's a shitty thing to do. A real goddamn shitty thing to do. I know we're arguing on the internet and all, but at some level, I'm deeply disappointed how far you'll go. It's awful. And it reflects badly on your character. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 20:28, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

I didn't call Oxy a homophobe. I said that "it's homophobic", meaning the term 'buttchug'. I'm fully aware that making a single bigoted remark does not make one a bigot. I said that Oxy used an ad hominem on Buttigieg: that much is true. I've seen these types of 'butt' references to Buttigieg on Nazi Twitter, so it's something that they are exploiting, very likely as homophobia. I actually came across that University of Tennessee story back in May when I was writing the fraternity page (I did not use it on the page though), so it wasn't something new to me. Perhaps we can both accept that 'buttchug' can sometimes be homophobic depending on intentions?
You called me dumb in your initial response, and this was not the first time you've done this. I can accept when I'm wrong, but saying things like that doesn't help discourse. Bongolian (talk) 20:49, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
It was pretty goddamn dumb to post. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 21:02, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
Imo, making fun of a person for having "butt" in the name is a 6 year old playground tease. I wouldn't go far to say it's anything inherently homophobic. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 21:08, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
That's true. I'd never do it myself, except inasmuch as I say things like "butt" and "klobb" out of laziness. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 21:12, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
If I had to make fun of Buttigieg, I'd call him "the butt man", but again, not out of malice, just to amuse myself. Kinda like changing words in movie/book/video game titles to "ass" and see which results make me laugh (and they usually do because I'm like 9 years old sometimes). --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 21:20, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Libertarian paradise[edit]

Guess you didn't like that edit? (Help, help, I'm being oppressed by statists! Come quickly! Come see the violence inherent in the system!) - (talk) 23:30, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Snark is like table salt. A little bit adds flavor and depth but too much ruins everything. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 00:31, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Civility Policy[edit]

I admit, I am kind of coming around to the idea of a more formalized civility policy. What would you have in mind? RoninMacbeth (talk) 18:27, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Considering the amount of abuse I get thrown my way I`m cautiously in favor of it, but formulate it in such a way that does not allow for tone trolling, sealioning, or general bad faith argumentation. β€” Oxyaena Harass 18:31, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
I actually don't have anything very specific in mind. Before the original fracas, I was originally thinking of a mainspace page on civility, but then I started wondering missional-or-not and shelved the idea. We could start such a page, which might be less controversial than an immediate policy change, and then try to push policy towards agreement with such a page. Bongolian (talk) 18:35, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
I attempted one, then that got shot down, iirc. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 19:35, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
@LeftyGreenMario I think you brought up the idea of a direct policy change within the Saloon. What do you think of my idea of mainspace page first, then trying to push for (modest) policy changes? Bongolian (talk) 19:38, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Hi, JDSalamander here[edit]

I did not mean to appear as a troll, just adding some humour to articles. I was also the one who updated the Alex Jones page. I live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I appreciate the message you're sending, and I hate misinformation and conspiracy theories as much as y'all do.

@JDSalamander That's fine. It just seemed like snark in the wrong places to me. Keep at it and you might get into the swing of things around here. Bongolian (talk) 17:57, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

2020 election and voter suppression[edit]

What do you mean by "Can you come up with a better citation if you're going to make that voter suppression claim?". There's at least three sources in WIGO elections and more can be easily found in a five minutes search in Google. Or are you denying there was voter supression? I mean the democratic establishment made no ilusions about it's opposition to Bernie Sanders and what can you call the Dems allowing primaries to go on (and threatening to punish states that postponed primaries) during a pandemic other than voter suppression? It's just what it is. The fact that polling status were massively reduced and that people had to wait hours and hours to vote is nothing more than voter suppression, to try to claim otherwise is just delusion.Tuxer (talk) 23:08, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

I'm not trying to deny anything. I just didn't think that was a very good citation ([2]). If you have a news article rather than a blog post, it would be an improvement. Bongolian (talk) 00:07, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, sorry for coming off a bit agressive. I will add the sources later.Tuxer (talk) 01:57, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
No problem. Bongolian (talk) 02:49, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Article on Hofstedter book[edit]

I have written about 3,000 words on Draft:Anti-intellectualism in American Life. It is essentially an outline of the author's introductory chapters. I am not sure how to properly format this kind of article. The general nature of anti-intellectualism, at least the variety most familiar in America, might be instructive to some of our readers. Perhaps you could take a look at it on one of these lonely days ahead. Criticism would be appreciated.Ariel31459 (talk) 03:50, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

It's probably fine content-wise, so I'll move it into mainspace and begin editing. Bongolian (talk) 04:12, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
@Ariel31459 This is a good draft and is ready for mainspace. I'll be happy to review and refine. Cosmikdebris (talk) 04:15, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
Good deal. Thanks to both of you.Ariel31459 (talk) 04:29, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
@Cosmikdebris I'm taking a break from editing for at least a couple hours if you want to continue. Bongolian (talk) 05:16, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
@Cosmikdebris Yes. All help is appreciated, refining the article. Also, we still need to add more on the topic of evangelism. At the moment I am still reading. Ariel31459 (talk) 20:36, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

About that block[edit]

I think the BoN's comments were meant to be sarcastic, claiming this is what goes through the minds of prominent conservatives like Rupert Murdoch. Did you by chances look at the last sentence in the post, or the BoN's talk page(which they just made) or perhaps their user history(they tend to make sarcastic statements like this)? Was the block really called for? A verbal warning might have sufficed.-Flandres (talk) 19:45, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Draft redirects[edit]

Thanks for removing the redirect from draft of Logan Robertson. There is also a redirect from draft:Joseph Sciambra which redirects to the main page. Is removing draft redirects something I can do in future? Debunky (talk) 22:46, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

I deleted the redirect from the draft version of Joseph Sciambra. Cosmikdebris (talk) 23:37, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
@Debunky Yes, Sysops like yourself have the power to delete pages. Also, at the time that one moves a page to mainspace, one has the option of not creating a redirect. Bongolian (talk) 01:10, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
Ah, thanks I didn't see that feature. I will not include redirects in future. Debunky (talk) 01:12, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Article deleted for no reason?[edit]


The article you worked on has been deleted randomly with no vote to deletion, see (redacted) .

Problematically, the editor who created the page has also been banned on dubious allegations of being a banned editor (no evidence though was presented for this.) I suggest monitoring EK's erratic behaviour and abuse of moderation. Tephra (talk) 22:02, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Please restore the page for at least a vote to delete discussion. The claim by EK the article "doxxed" (redacted) is also dubious. Tephra (talk) 22:05, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
EK is retracting my edits for no valid reason. There's no dox:
Ek's dubious argument is (-) article doxed him, but but he identifies his Wikipedia account with his real name on various Wikipedia related blogs and forums:

(comment removed)

I don't use discord, the deletion was "per discord". There is no doxing here. Perhaps a mistake has been made. John66 (talk) 00:11, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
I'm not on Discord either. @EK, Can you still justify the page deletion in light of the above quotation & link? Of the moderators only @LeftyGreenMario and @RWRW are acknowledged to be on Discord, though RWRW seems to be asleep at the wheel of late. Bongolian (talk) 00:32, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
Asleep at the wheel? I was just resting my eyes officer!
There's been no discussion about it on Discord that I've seen. And certainly none that I've been a part of. --RWRW (talk) 01:00, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
there is relevant disscussion on the Treehouse and wp chat as I no longer use the public ratwiki discord. EK (talk) 01:13, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜Please move all further discussion of this topic to here: RationalWiki talk:All things in moderation#deleted article Bongolian (talk) 01:15, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm on Discord, but I didn't see any rationaliwki related discussion on our server (or at least in the appropriate channels) or in the cobb server (which is a server we link to alongside the official server if I recall correctly). --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 01:20, 2 April 2020 (UTC)


Hi, sorry for the overdramatism, please could I have some help @ Draft:Politic-Ed???--Barca119 (talk) 18:21, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

I don't know anything about the site. You could ask for help in Saloon to see if anyone is familiar with it or interested in it. Bongolian (talk) 18:23, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I was more asking about what needs verifying with references, so that the draft can become an article. Is there anything that does need verifying in your eyes, or can I move it to being an article? Thanks :) --Barca119 (talk) 18:28, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
It looks like you had reasonable references before you erased it. The problem was probably that you hadn't written enough about the site to justify it as a mainspace article. We like to keep stubs out of mainspace. Bongolian (talk) 18:41, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Ok thanks, I'll add some more detail to the article as the night progresses! Thank you for your help!!! :) --Barca119 (talk) 18:43, 6 April 2020 (UTC)


Hey, I don't like to be confrontational but I find some of your links added to pages to sometimes be excessive? For example, on Logan Robertson you linked this significant area of a quote to the Kinder, KΓΌche, Kirche page as follows: "I sure wouldn't be voting for that new Labour lady… she needs to shut up and go home and get in the kitchen where women belong and bake a cake for her boyfriend." I just think this takes away from the legibility of the article, and when you link a quote like that it makes the reader think it is an external link to him saying the quote. You also linked New Zealand multiple times on the page when once would've been ok. Wikipedia article often don't link to the nationality/country of a person at all. I removed it for that reason. I know that RW does promote the linking to other pages, and I do appreciate the humour in your links, but sometimes I think it does promote too much confusion about what exactly a person is clicking on when it is too ambiguous. Should you disagree, feel free to clarify, but I did want to make this point heard. Thanks :) --Debunky (talk) 11:33, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Debunky! I think the use of Kinder, KΓΌche, Kirche highly appropriate in that case. It has been used elsewhere in RW in similar such cases, e.g. "a woman's place is in the home and subservient to her husband" on page Jesus Is Savior, "traditional gender roles" on Roy Masters, and "1950s gender roles" on Tucker Carlson. Virtually no one is going to say "Kinder, KΓΌche, Kirche" outright anymore, so it's basically a shorthand for forms of antifeminism that dictate rigid gender roles. When you tell a woman to shut up, go home and bake for her male significant other, that's certainly hitting the mark of what Kinder, KΓΌche, Kirche was about.
As for the multiple links to New Zealand on a single page, I actually don't remember doing that, and I have generally removed multiple repeated links from a single page, so you're fine removing those. Bongolian (talk) 17:27, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Madder root[edit]

Could you sort out the redirects - it seems to be a 3-4 stage process to get to the right section. (I have a passing interest in dyes and colours, hence the checking.) Anna Livia (talk) 10:27, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

@Anna Livia, I think I fixed it. Let me know. Bongolian (talk) 17:16, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
Not quite - typing in 'Madder root' goes to 'List of herbs and spices' & then to the right place. Would do it myself if it was 'simple'. Anna Livia (talk) 18:02, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
I don't think I understand the problem then. Bongolian (talk) 18:19, 16 April 2020 (UTC)


Do you think she'll stay gone?

I acted too hastily. I wanted the fighting to stop. I...I regret bringing that coop case forward. I hope she does come back. RoninMacbeth (talk) 17:26, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

I cannot speak for her. She's has a retired sign on her homepage since December, but it hasn't stopped her from editing. It's probably best that you tell her directly. LGM and I have tried to push for more civility, to date there has not seemed to be much interest in changing the code of conduct. The civility page that I started could possibly serve as a template if you think it's time for a change. Bongolian (talk) 17:33, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, Ronin. To be honest I act too hastily, but the recent Biden affair almost made me quit this wiki for real this time. I was legitimately disgusted. β€” Oxyaena Harass 05:24, 9 May 2020 (UTC)


did you rewrite The Crow's section? That was the compromise. You removed the reference to the Tom King call, why? That's why I reverted it. β€” Oxyaena Harass 05:23, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

You mean Larry King? I thought it was flimsy, But I'll add add back the call tomorrow. It's mentioned in the WaPo story that I cited after all. Bongolian (talk) 07:37, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, Larry, whatever. I just take issue with the fact you wholesale reverted it, and there wasn't a consensus that WaPo was okay. β€” Oxyaena Harass 07:43, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Why was my Gish Gallop example removed?[edit]

I thought the Library of Hate seemed like a great example of a race realist gish gallop. Is it because it's from a Twitter account? Because the fact that someone bothered to write up all of those """facts""" obviously thought it would be of worth to the alt-right. --GekoNeko (talk) 14:45, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

@GekoNeko That was @Oxyaena who did that: you'd have to ask her. A better place to ask about such things is usually on the relevant talk page (Talk:Gish Gallop). Bongolian (talk) 15:55, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Mr Pence[edit]

You have been caught moonlighting as an editor of a blasphemous but obscure wiki in some backwater of the internet. You are hereby under arrest. β€” Oxyaena Harass 10:42, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

You apparently neglected to read the message at the top of this page. Thank you for feeding the troll. Bongolian (talk) 16:15, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

To Do List New Articles sections[edit]

So, after closing the votes for the Jeffrey Epstein suggestion & the Dakota Access Pipeline suggestion, I saw that the Jeffrey Epstein one is still only a section from the Clinton Body Count page. And I have no idea whether I should open that vote poll again and move it back to the "Most Wanted Articles" section or not since I don't know if it will mess up the other votes in that section. Beyond Reality (talk) 13:47, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

@Beyond Reality, If you think you have enough missional material to make a separate article for Epstein that is broader than the existing section, go ahead and do it, either in draftspace or mainspace. Unless there are many down-votes votes in the To Do list, you shouldn't take it as an absolute. Bongolian (talk) 16:59, 26 May 2020 (UTC)


You blocked that sock of Ken’s but did we even reach a consensus on his block? Last I recall it was 10 to 14 spilt and there was no real resolution. AceModerator 00:52, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Ken's being an abusive nuisance with multiple socks popping up subsequent to his coop case. If there's no agreement to ban, then he won't need the socks. Bongolian (talk) 01:12, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Accounts according to policy should get blocked if there's ban evasion taking place. However I banned the user for only a few days while also putting them in the vandal bin to see what they do assuming they wait out the block duration. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 01:18, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
I mean, the fact that Ken wastes his socks on pursuing petty feuds rather than making a clear argument for why we should keep him around is... quite telling actually. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 01:49, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
I’m not overly concerned. Just wondering where we wound up given it doesn’t seem a conclusion was reached. AceModerator 02:17, 29 May 2020 (UTC)


Hey Bongolian, I was wondering why you deleted my redirect? Jejasas258 (talk) 07:50, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

It didn't seem necessary. Bongolian (talk) 08:21, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

The 6 actors i put in The hollywood conservatives list. Way did you remove them jn the first place?[edit]

I just wanted to ask way? Those 6 actors are indeed conservatives and Republicans. I know becuase i did the research — Unsigned, by: / talk

Living people, no citations. If you want to add citations for them, I have no objection. The page could probably use some cleanup in that regard. Bongolian (talk) 01:32, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
What does citation mean?
I don't think it needs a clean up. I really just what to put them back in with no problems, that's what I hope. — Unsigned, by: / talk
For living people especially, you should have an actual source, either a web citation or a citation to a physical publication, not just your saying that person X said Y. E.g. you knew that one of them tweeted something but you have no link to the tweet. Bongolian (talk) 02:19, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Oh I understand now, I need to add links.
Vera Miles may be hard. I found out she is a republican throw Wikipedia and their source doesn't have a link. It just says it came from a 1956 magazine that she surpported Dwight Eisenhower Re-election campaign. She is still alive by the way — Unsigned, by: / talk
She also may no longer be a conservative. Bongolian (talk) 02:34, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Depends, it didn't say anything about her switching parties in her life. I mean I could put her in and mention. That it came from a old magazine as Wikipedia does give the name to it— Unsigned, by: / talk / contribs
Party alignment doesn't always indicate political ideology. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 02:50, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Edit Warring[edit]

You asked me for my opinion on the edit warring that Oxyaeana repeatedly. I'm too exhausted to follow up with anything but Oxyaena hasn't learned anything dealing with content dispute and the community is exhausted too. I really don't know the right direction to go but Christ maybe you can take up the mantle of teaching people to not edit war oh gosh. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 23:54, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

For some reason, I don't often across edit warring unless it's brought to my attention. I follow a lot of pages, but not so much the political ones, which might be more prone to edit warring. Bongolian (talk) 00:01, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, I’ve never been edit-warred over a history or country page. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 00:22, 9 June 2020 (UTC)


didn't know it was mod protected. I only found out after I made the edit. β€” Oxyaena Harass 16:51, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

OK, I assumed as much and gave you the benefit of the doubt. Bongolian (talk) 16:57, 9 June 2020 (UTC)


Hi, just wanted to know why you think a redirect of D Trump is useless. β€” Godless Raven 🌹 Heretic 06:24, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Does anyone call him that? Is there any actual current link on RW that uses it? No. Bongolian (talk) 06:27, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
For the first question, yes. But sure, I trust your judgement on the usefulness of it. Sorry that I wanted to help. shrug β€” Godless Raven 🌹 Heretic 06:31, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
OK, no prob. Bongolian (talk) 06:32, 12 June 2020 (UTC)


I take it you’re good with the changes I made there? Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 17:24, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

I do trust your excellent writing, I just wanted to give you a warning/reminder about the shitstorm we once had about Israel/Palestine. I've only taken a brief look so far, but I will give it a thorough read soon. Bongolian (talk) 17:45, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Zal X[edit]

Zal X is a group of past vandals of rational wiki based on the AZ vandal group and him and az raided this wiki Operater Separate from AZ but still in the group kept vandalising this wiki He then later on in April and may and of course June been planning on making a vandal move here I then betrayed him 2 months ago when he reveled it's a raid group and to take down rational wiki instead of helping it. — Unsigned, by: / talk

harassment stuff[edit]

Hi, I didn't want to interfere with the hastur and oxy stuff, but I have complaints of harassments myself and I would appreciate if you looked into it. Other mods refused to look into it and/or do anything about it. I compiled a list of the stuff here. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User:Godless_Raven/harassment Thank you very much nonetheless. β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 18:06, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

It's not harassment. Stop calling it that. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 18:13, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
This comment applies to you too here. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 18:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
It is worth repeating here. Unsubstantiated or poorly substantiated claims of harassment can be a form of harassment in itself:[3]
β€œβ€Making accusations of harassment can be inflammatory and hence these accusations may not be helpful in a dispute. It can be seen as a personal attack if harassment is alleged without clear evidence that the others' action is actually harassment, and unfounded accusations may constitute harassment themselves if done repeatedly. The result is often accusations of harassment on your part, which tends to create a nasty cycle. At the same time, claims of harassment should be taken seriously and not be summarily dismissed unless it becomes clear the accusations are not well-founded.
If you have a legitimate claim of being harassed, then bring the claim to our attention, but you absolutely must include clear reasons and links, and more than just one instance (unless it's something severe like doxing). Bongolian (talk) 18:55, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Did you even look at what I linked? https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User:Godless_Raven/harassment β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 18:57, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I did. Except for GC, you only cited one instance each per editor. Did you tell them to stop the offensive behavior (ad hominem attacks)? Did they persist? Bongolian (talk) 19:19, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Insults without substance are ad homs, nothing about what we wrote counted as ad homs. β€” Oxyaena Harass 19:52, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Unless you actually witnessed it, or the person admitted to it on RW, or the person was convicted of necrophilia, then 'corpsefucker' is an ad hom. Bongolian (talk) 20:06, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜ shrug I think calling me a "mong" is pretty out of line, that's even worse than calling someone a "retard". But okay, thanks for your answer. β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 20:12, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Note the user was horrified when you said where that word was derived from and immediately apologized. Your argument is based on an exaggeration.-Flandres (talk) 20:17, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
I did go on to say idiot instead, which isn't exactly civil, but you were being obtuse at the time, so I guess I lost my temper. Sorry again. FΓ©inlΓ©iriΓΊ (talk) 20:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
To be clear, I accept your apology @FΓ©inlΓ©iriΓΊ and hope we can move forward. (Edit: I meant to say that this is larger than a single person...) But this is more about a pattern of abusive language hurled at me without consequence - and seemingly will continue to not have any consequences based on the answers I had here. But okay, it is what it is. β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 20:21, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
ratwiki does not really care about people being uncivil I guess but hopefully this can change. I for one think that a higher standard of discourse would improve the editing environment a lot. EK (talk) 20:36, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜ @EK the only reason why I tried to reason with Bongolian is because he did warn Hastur for saying that Oxy has "no friends", which is an attack on her and why it was justified (to warn Hastur); even Hastur agreed it was not acceptable. All good. But suddenly, when it comes to attacks directed at me, there is no such moderation. Nothing happens. And it is infuriating that this double standard of moderation happens this blatantly. That's why I am angry. I am not even asking for any punishments now, if the mods promise me that in the future they won't allow those attacks on my person or anyone else I would be happy and delete the list. But the fact that even despite providing evidence of a pattern of abusive language that I still get thrown at me yields no result leads me to believe its a fruitless endeavor. β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 20:41, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

There is a reason his nickname is the "God Emperor" on discord :) But in my experience the mods don't really do that much in normal circumstances on this site and since nobody else has the authority to do much, not much is really done about most of the problems. We need a clear civility policy and a clear way to bring breaches of that policy to mod attention for resolution, but that's still a work in progress. So far not much is being done about it. EK (talk) 20:49, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
@EK To be clear, what is so fucking annoying is this obvious discrepancy. I mean, let's compare:

19:07 . . Bongolian (talk contribs block) blocked Hastur (talk contribs) with an expiration time of 31415 seconds (about 9 hours) (account creation disabled) β€Ž(personal attack(s))

I dislike Oxy, I like Hastur; this isn't about partisanship but being consistent with the guidelines; I AGREE with Bongolian warning Hastur for that attack. This will discourage Hastur of attacking Oxy again, which is GREAT. Yet calling me a a "little shit", "moron", "you are a fucking tacky little prick" in the same comment doesn't even get mod attention. WHAT THE SHIT ARE YOU ALL SMOKING? What the fuck is wrong with you moderators? There isn't even a condemnation let alone moderator action. This is absurd and shameless. The attacks on me are far less benign than "you have no friends". If the mods told AMG to not do this again I would be satisfied, and this is the bottom of the barrel of the plethora of actions that could be taken. Yet not even that is being done. β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 20:57, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Addendum: Bongolian correctly condemned Hastur for the attack on his talk page, saying:

Hastur, do not resort to personal attacks as you did here: [1]. I advise you to read the civility page if you want to continue editing here. Bongolian (talk) 17:51, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Why is this so hard for you to do AMG, why, like what the fuck is wrong with you? β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 21:00, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Fun fact: You have exactly the same nails-down-a-chalkboard quality as Oxy when in high dudgeon. This is obviously not a compliment. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 02:25, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Thank you, very nice compliment! β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 02:35, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Some of our users are not over-friendly so...well it's kind of like this:
Ariel31459 (talk) 02:53, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Godless Raven gets this
Mario of disappointment.jpg --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 03:46, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

{{retired}} β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 03:53, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
If that's your intent, @Godless Raven, that should go on your home page, not here. Bongolian (talk) 04:06, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Nah, i was kidding around. But thanks for evading anything i wrote. β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 04:10, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

What exactly is wrong with noting that a Qanon supporter won a Republican primary in a Congressional District where they have a good chance at winning a general?[edit]

I edited the Qanon page to note this, and you reverted my edit without explanation. I think its quite notable that a Qanon supporter won the Republican primary for CO-03, given that the District was won by Trump by about 12 points, and therefore could easily end up sending a Qanon supporter to Congress. — Unsigned, by: MappedTables / talk / contribs

@MappedTables: Yes, but you didn't give the candidate's name or a citation. Also: On talk pages, please sign your comments using four tildes (~~~~) or by clicking on the sign button: SigButt.png on the toolbar above the edit panel. You can also indent successive talk page comments using one more colon (:) for each line. Thank you. Bongolian (talk) 07:11, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Do we delete talk pages?[edit]

You deleted Talk:Kill-all-uglies, claiming that "We don't need to retain the talk page if the main page is deleted", but this seems to be contradicted both by the hundreds of pages in Category:Talk pages for deleted articles and by this policy page which says that "Talk pages should never be deleted." Can you explain this apparent inconsistency? Jinkinson (talk) 13:29, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

@Jinkinson, I have restored the talk page. Thank you for calling that to my attention. Bongolian (talk) 18:15, 6 July 2020 (UTC)


You've been nominated to the RationalMedia Foundation election. Please accept or decline; if you accept, you may wish to campaign. β€”cosmikdebris talk stalk 22:20, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

quick question[edit]

Is it okay if I create a Category:Dead people or Category:Deceased? β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 08:04, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

The category of living people was made specifically because of addressing potential issues of libel on RW. I'm not sure what the dead people category would accomplish. Bongolian (talk) 08:12, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
welp only categorization? I heard only you and a few users bother with categories. So I wanted to help. β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 08:14, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia does this but it's arranged by year of death. β€” Z 13:27, 13 July 2020 (UTC)


Thanks for warning me, I'll try to make constructive edits now (although my previous edits werent supposed to be vandalism). Thanks again. TheFonz (talk) 09:10, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

May i help you with fixing the Hollywood Conservatives[edit]

I see things are starting to slow down there with cleaning it up and I can help and even added the sources of the ones I put in. If it helps. — Unsigned, by: / talk

No thanks. It's not high priority, but it's a mess. I'll get around to it soon enough. Bongolian (talk) 17:17, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Ok than, just asking. — Unsigned, by: / talk

Chicken Coop[edit]

Blocking somebody for 9 hours, who was discussing it on a talk page, and still telling them to discuss it on a talk page, is abusing your blocking rights. You can defend yourself in the coop. LongLostLegend (talk) 04:27, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

I hope you don't consider me a troll[edit]

I didn't get a chance to respond to you before the deletion... I work nights... and I don't really understand how the social parts of this site work so I am writing to you here. Of course your right about p-values... I should have said the p-values suggest that HCQ has a beneficial impact. I rushed that statement and I didn't completely reflect on how best to state my position, which is more probabilistic in nature. I did much better in the body of the article where I said something to the effect of 'it was highly unlikely that we would have multiple studies achieving statistical significance if there was no beneficial impact.' P-values are the first step to achieving scientific consensus... any individual study can easily be wrong, but the likelihood significantly diminishes when multiple studies come to the same statistically significant conclusion (assuming that the studies don't have a common cofounder messing up the results and/or the researcher's aren't doing stupid things like P-fishing). I am not contesting the deletion or anything. I get it... implying but not saying Gilead's stock price might have something to do with the slanted HCQ news coverage and Google's censorship is dangerous... I am just trying to have a conversation. I hope you don't find it too inappropriate.AndyChrist (talk) 16:34, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

No, I don't consider you to be a troll. You've made some good edits elsewhere. Everyone here makes mistakes, including me. Recognizing one's defeats or mistakes is a quality that we value here. Bongolian (talk) 16:53, 3 August 2020 (UTC)


I unblocked Panther. They made a single edit so I don't think you can call that "excessively trolling pages" AceModerator 01:43, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

I guessed "sock of…" based on the wording, but you're welcome to your view. Bongolian (talk) 01:46, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
We pulled Oxy up for similar blocking so just trying to be consistent. AceModerator 01:52, 6 August 2020 (UTC)


Can you please explain why you have blocked this IP address for as long as 31415 seconds? This seems wholly unnecessary, to me it appears that a block of 3141 seconds would have been sufficient. Kiko4564 (talk) 10:15, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

I was over-reacting, but it seemed to be part of a pattern of vandalism from a range of BoNs, probably the same person. Now unblocked. Bongolian (talk) 16:54, 9 August 2020 (UTC)


Can you please delete this image? It appears to have been uploaded only for the purpose of vandalism. Kiko4564 (talk) 09:04, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

There's some difficulty with doing that. You can see the discussion here: RationalWiki:Technical support#How to a remove in image. Bongolian (talk) 17:16, 14 August 2020 (UTC)


I apologise for not writing any stuff in that section I created but I did think it was worth noting that he's no longer subscribed to him, whereas he was last time he checked. Entirely possible and indeed probable that he still watches his videos and has simply unsubscribed from him to cover up his views (and he's still subscribed to steven crowder's second channel) but I thought that was worth discussing. — Unsigned, by: 2001:8003:a51d:cb00:bf:9e14:d5e:3155 / talk / contribs

I probably would have left it if there was at least a link confirming what you said. You're welcome to add it back if you've can add evidence. Bongolian (talk) 16:12, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


You might want to check out all things in moderation. Or GR's new userpage, for that matter.-Flandres (talk) 01:37, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

"Please mods, silence Raven!" β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 01:38, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Are you afraid of the mods seeing your behavior? Why would you want to hide from them?-Flandres (talk) 01:39, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Who is hiding, dipshit? β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 01:42, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
And why would you infer that the mods would silence if they just saw what you were doing? You seemed awfully quick to speculate that.-Flandres (talk) 01:44, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Raven don’t call people dipshit if you want to object when people do it to you. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 01:45, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, let me use Oxy's jargon instead, because when she did it, it was considered okay. "You miserable dumbfuck" Is that better? β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 01:46, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Since when have I said Oxy’s behavior was okay? I’ve jumped down her throat as much as anyone about the insults. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 01:48, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Also, Oxy did not cheer to everyone constantly when you left, nor did she brag about it on her userpage.-Flandres (talk) 01:50, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Yep, she is totally cool now! β€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 01:51, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Oxyaena is a troubled person. Why use her as a model?Ariel31459 (talk) 01:53, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜I have read it. GR's incivility and wishing for other productive sysops to leave is conduct unbecoming of a sysop. I'm refraining from comment at the moment regarding the sysoprevoke. Bongolian (talk) 03:46, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Vandal bin[edit]

Firstly, thanks for unbanning me. I appreciate now being allowed to make edits, including to my talk page (which I was also blocked from editing for a short time). Secondly I am now aware that I am in somewhere called the "vandal bin", which restricts me to editing only once every 30 minutes. Can you advise me if you are planning on lifting this restriction after a certain time, or are you intending to keep this on indefinitely? Kiko4564 (talk) 12:29, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

As you may have noticed, Nutty Roux took you out of the bin again with this explanation: User talk:Kiko4564#Vandal bin parole. Bongolian (talk) 16:56, 28 August 2020 (UTC)


I’m definitely not gonna come out and defend the guy (personally I think a ban has been far too long a time coming...), but I figured I’d just check. Is there any kind of necessary consensus or whatever for the block? I’m not gonna go out and start another coop or whatever, but also I figure it’s probably best to check in case things get β€œDramatique”. 03:16, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Consensus is not needed since he has the ability (Sysop) and knowledge to unblock himself. Bongolian (talk) 03:21, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Oh right, sorry I didn’t know he was a sysop. no worries then, sorry, carry on. 03:24, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Why did you revert my edit?[edit]

You reverted this edit [4] and I'd like to know why. I read this RationalWiki:Newcomers and Help:Red links so I don't see how removing a red link for "domesticated" is a change that would need to be reverted. WhatIsAGoodUsername (talk) 03:52, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

You made a red link (i.e., a link to a non-existent page), and it's unclear that there should be such a page. Also, if there were such a page on the topic, it would probably be called 'domestication', not 'domesticated'. Bongolian (talk) 04:09, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
I didn't make a red link, I removed it and you reverted that change. Take a look another look at the edit I made. WhatIsAGoodUsername (talk) 07:14, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Sorry about that. My mistake. Bongolian (talk) 07:16, 1 September 2020 (UTC)


Hi Bongolian, I was doing some patrolling when I ran into a strange edit by a BoN. It doesn't seem to be the typical sort of drive by trolling, since it has a citation. It feels off with how old the article cited is (2014) and the conclusions being drawn from the article. Yet I believe the BoN is acting in good faith. I wouldn't know enough about the subjects in question (although I did stumble upon this) to comment. Is the standard procedure to just leave it? Or revert? Or rewrite? I don't want to upset anyone, so I thought I would just ask. Sorry to have bothered you with my nonsense. - Rairyu75 (Talk) 18:55, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

@Rairyu75, I kept the first part of the sentence, which is factually true with a good reference. And, I deleted the second part, which is speculative. It's hard to say that the project is inherently bad since it appears that the data will be public. Bongolian (talk) 22:25, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Added a bunch of (sourced) terms to Alt-right glossary[edit]

Just wanted to give you a heads-up since you've been active on that article a few years. TapTheForwardAssist (talk) 14:08, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Bongolian (talk) 16:28, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
I'm cleaning up your edits, @TapTheForwardAssist, but good work overall. I don't go to Reddit much, but I see that it's still a Nazi sewer despite the leadership's recent promises. Also, I notice that there is information hidden on Reddit that shows up on fresh archives by Archive.is, indicating that they're hiding but not removing offensive some offensive content. Bongolian (talk) 17:54, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
@Bongolian Reddit has relatively improved over time, generally when offensive stuff gets reported on by the mass media and Reddit is forced to crack down to appease advertisers. They deleted an absolute ton of racist, anti-semitic, and anti-trans subs earlier this year. Largely subs explicitly dedicated to over-the-top bigotry (or outright calling for fascism) have been removed, but they've tolerated the veterans of those subs moving to and taking over more mainstream subs so they can message a wider audience. So for an example, explicit Nazi subs get banned, but r/Tucker_Carlson daily has people posting about The Great Replacement, "Hitler did nothing wrong", "13%", literally citing the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, etc. Afaik TC is one of the largest and most outspokenly Nazi subs currently, and not just like "as racist as Tucker himself", but well well beyond that. And the other big one is r/PoliticalCompassMemes which was broadly a place for humorous memes poking at the foibles of various political stances, but after the main Nazi subs got banned this year a ton of them drifted to PCM and for some reason focus entirely on "ironic" memes praising the Nazis, demonizing minorities, etc. and it's all laughed off as "just a joke." So overall improvement, and Reddit severely pissed off a lot of right-wingers who bailed out to more Nazi-tolerant platforms, but Reddit isn't putting in the effort to really consistently weed it out, especially when it exists as an undercurrent of an "otherwise mainstream" sub. TapTheForwardAssist (talk) 19:46, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation. It does not impress me about Reddit's management though. It seems to amount to just PR: banning hate subs rather than actually banning hate speech. It reminds me of Twitter where reporting hate speech is not appreciated because it makes work and is bad publicity. Bongolian (talk) 20:31, 12 September 2020 (UTC)


This guy? Should we... assume good faith (Bongolian wtf is this? Would I get in trouble if I just yeeted them? I know some people are angry that users are trigger happy with blocks, but for f%$Β£'s sake...)? - Rairyu75 (Talk) 18:18, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

I already dealt with it. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 18:20, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I would also presume that there's trollish intent for that account. Bongolian (talk) 18:22, 7 September 2020 (UTC)


I've sent you one. It's somewhat urgent. Apologies for the inconvenience. Coigreach (talk) 00:56, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

@Coigreach Done. Bongolian (talk) 01:02, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
Thank you! Coigreach (talk) 01:11, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
Uh, looked into it a bit more, and seems there's some additional work needed, email sent. Sorry. Coigreach (talk) 01:36, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
@Coigreach Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see anything but links to reputable sources: Axios and Coda Story in the other edits. Bongolian (talk) 01:42, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
The last link (after the doxing claim) doesn't show in the references. If you click on it though, it goes straight to the retweet. Coigreach (talk) 01:45, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
@Coigreach Got it. Done. Bongolian (talk) 01:51, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. Coigreach (talk) 01:53, 9 September 2020 (UTC)


I appreciate that one failed prognostication may not constitute a Noble disease. However, consider the following:

1) Predicted no more than 10 dead in Israel (there are over 1,000 now)

2) Predicted 3,000 dead in the US, then progressively higher numbers until 170,000 (over 200,000 now)

3) Similar wrong predictions for other areas.

4) Attacked the entire field of epidemiology as "failed"

5) Supports the false "only 6% of reported COVID deaths are from COVID, the rest are "'with' COVID " misinterpretation of CDC data

6) Supports building infection-based herd immunity, something every epidemiologist and public health expert say would be catastrophic.

7) Continues to claim that lockdowns killed more people than they saved.

8) Completely ignores and in one case denied the long-term morbidity experienced by a large number of recovered cases.

9) Worst of all (IMO): used eugenic arguments to justify letting COVID spread freely. — Unsigned, by: Lamb1914 / talk / contribs

I think if you based the Nobel disease entry on eugenics and anti-epidemiology, it would be reasonable. Bongolian (talk) 23:52, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Was that some kind...[edit]

...of joke? ShabiDOO 18:50, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Actually, no. That's what it states at the top of the coop: the person that starts an invalid vote is to be blocked. I assumed it was you because you were the first vote. If it wasn't you, then I apologize. Bongolian (talk) 19:07, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
It wasn't an invalid vote. It wasn't about punishments or involving any of the users who was cooped but about whether coops should be rehashed at all. ShabiDOO 21:15, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
Policy decisions like that probably shouldn't be done in Coop anyway. CoigreachAnnoySpySilence 22:05, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
1) My reading of this is that it pertains to coop votes period. But that votes in the coop should pertain to specific individuals.
β€œβ€When presenting a case here, be sure to include whom you are accusing, what exactly you are accusing them of, some hard evidence, and a brief explanation. Since the sole purpose of the Coop is to resolve these disputes, don't post unrelated or more generalized complaints here β€” if you do, your posts will be moved off the page. Any vote started within 48 hours of filing will be deleted and you will be blocked.
2) It was a confusingly-worded voting issue ("Vote to only rehash coops for contentious or irregular old bans...if the users actually come back and contest or try to make edits"), since as far as I'm aware, individuals already have such a right, particularly if new significant evidence is presented. Bongolian (talk) 22:28, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
I disagree, but people do have the right to appeal a block that they disagree with, and/or feel is invalid. This is different from sockpuppeting and editing whilst unlawfully at large, like Smith did. That is unacceptable. Kiko4564 (talk) 22:32, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
It probably wasn't the right place to put that vote but I think it could have been just moved or as was done, removed. The block was slightly over-the-top. ShabiDOO 22:40, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
I agree. This sort of reminds me of Pisos justice. I think blocks in this case, should be at the discretion of a sysop, not mandatory. Are they mandatory? Kiko4564 (talk) 22:41, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜A 1-hour block that he could have undone himself β€”Β it's hardly over-the-top. If you want to reopen the vote in the RationalWiki talk:Community Standards page, that's fine with me. I would like a proposed policy change to be clearer: does it apply to everyone who was permabanned due to irregular procedure or just those who petition to be reinstated. Bongolian (talk) 01:04, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

My promotion[edit]

Hi Bongolian, I would like to appeal against your decision to promote me to a regular editor. I fail to see how this was a valid decision given that I had already been demoted to autopatrolled by User:Duce Mooslini User:DuceMoosolini, who was aware that I am an admitted vandal. Can you please demote me again, or at least explain why you promoted me? Thanks. Kiko4564 (talk) 11:12, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Why would I want to demote a vandal? Bongolian (talk) 16:36, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
Because I won't do it again. Have I vandalised since User:DuceMoosolini demoted me? Kiko4564 (talk) 17:42, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
Yes [5].Even Duces own userspace [6][7]. The fact that you undid those vandalism's yourself, doesn't change the fact that you vandalized them in the first place. CoigreachAnnoySpySilence 18:13, 18 September 2020 (UTC)