Talk:Sovereign citizen

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extreme bias[edit]

I do not know much about this group, just came here to see if I could figure out what paperwork I saw a guy on youtube use to avoid having to show insurance or license but this looks very biased. The whole article reads like something off Encyclopedia dramatica. — Unsigned, by: / talk 11:16, 14 April 2015

You opinion has been duly noted (and disregarded), BoN. Comments should be signed and new sections go at the bottom of the page, btw. ScepticWombat (talk) 11:26, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
Really? I'm not seeing any porn ads on the side or obscene pictures in the article, though. (talk) 11:31, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Individual Sovereigns do exist which makes this article void.[edit]

Declaration of Arbroath The Declaration made a number of rhetorical points: that Scotland had always been independent, indeed for longer than England; that Edward I of England had unjustly attacked Scotland and perpetrated atrocities; that Robert the Bruce had delivered the Scottish nation from this peril; and, most controversially, that the independence of Scotland was the prerogative of the Scottish people, rather than the King of Scots. In fact it stated that the nobility would choose someone else to be king if Bruce proved to be unfit in maintaining Scotland's independence. Some have interpreted this last point as an early expression of 'popular sovereignty' – that government is contractual and that kings can be chosen by the community rather than by God alone.

A Claim of Right for Scotland was a document crafted by the Campaign for a Scottish Assembly in 1988, declaring the sovereignty of the Scottish people. It was signed by all then-serving Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs, with the exception of Tam Dalyell (Labour), a strident opponent of devolution. The list of signatories included several MPs who would later attain high office, including future prime minister Gordon Brown, future chancellor Alistair Darling, and future leaders of the Liberal Democrats Charlie Kennedy and Menzies Campbell.

The Claim of Right reads- We, gathered as the Scottish Constitutional Convention, do hereby acknowledge the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of Government best suited to their needs, and do hereby declare and pledge that in all our actions and deliberations their interests shall be paramount. We further declare and pledge that our actions and deliberations shall be directed to the following ends: To agree a scheme for an Assembly or Parliament for Scotland; To mobilize Scottish opinion and ensure the approval of the Scottish people for that scheme; and To assert the right of the Scottish people to secure implementation of that scheme.

The argument was based upon the terms of Article 18 of the Treaty of Union, the terms of which are familiar to historians, legal academics and commentators and to the courts which have considered its import on a number of occasions. The Article reads as follows: “That the Laws concerning Regulation of Trade, Customs and such Excises to which Scotland is by virtue of this Treaty to be lyable be the same in Scotland from and after the Union as in England, and that all other Lawes in use within the Kingdom of Scotland do after the Union and notwithstanding thereof remain the same as before (except such as are contrary to or inconsistent with this Treaty) but alterable by the Parliament of Great Britain With this difference betwixt the laws concerning publick Right, Policy and Civil Government and those which concern private Right That the Laws which concern publick Right Policy and Civil Government may be made the same throughout the whole United Kingdom but that no alteration be made in Laws which concern private Right except for the evident utility of the subjects within Scotland.”

In parliamentary systems of government, primary legislation and secondary legislation, also referred to as delegated legislation, are two forms of law, created respectively by the legislative and executive branches of government. The executive branch is commonly known as His/her Majesty's Government (HMG). It is led by the Prime Minister and the Cabinet and is made up of a collection of about a hundred ministers who carry out the laws made by Parliament and who run the government and the country day-to-day. The judicial branch enforces the law.

Primary legislation is law made by the legislative branch of government. This contrasts with secondary legislation, which is usually made by the executive branch. Secondary (or delegated) legislation must be authorized by primary legislation, and conform to boundaries it has laid down. Secondary legislation (also referred to as delegated legislation) is law made by an executive authority under powers delegated from by an enactment of primary legislation, which grants the executive agency power to implement and administer the requirements of that primary legislation. The power to pass delegated legislation is defined and limited by the primary legislation that delated those powers; if the subordinate authority acts beyond its remit, its acts will be invalid or ultra vires.

Forms of secondary legislation in the United Kingdom include: Statutory instruments – made in a variety of forms, most commonly Orders in Council, regulations, rules and orders. The form to be adopted is usually set out in the enabling Act.

US Senate Resolution 155 of 10 November 1997 states that the Declaration of Arbroath, the Scottish Declaration of Independence, was signed on April 6, 1320 and the American Declaration of Independence was modeled on that inspirational document.


Designating April 6 of each year as ``National Tartan Day to recognize the outstanding achievements and contributions made by Scottish Americans to the United States.

Whereas April 6 has a special significance for all Americans, and especially those Americans of Scottish descent, because the Declaration of Arbroath, the Scottish Declaration of Independence, was signed on April 6, 1320 and the American Declaration of Independence was modeled on that inspirational document;

Whereas this resolution honors the major role that Scottish Americans played in the founding of this Nation, such as the fact that almost half of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were of Scottish descent, the Governors in 9 of the original 13 States were of Scottish ancestry,Scottish Americans successfully helped shape this country in its formative years and guide this Nation through its most troubled times;

Whereas this resolution recognizes the monumental achievements and invaluable contributions made by Scottish Americans that have led to America's preeminence in the fields of science, technology, medicine, government, politics, economics, architecture, literature, media, and visual and performing arts;

Whereas this resolution commends the more than 200 organizations throughout the United States that honor Scottish heritage, tradition, and culture,representing the hundreds of thousands of Americans of Scottish descent, residing in every State, who already have made the observance of Tartan Day on April 6 a success;

Whereas These numerous individuals, clans, societies, clubs, and fraternal organizations do not let the great contributions of the Scottish people go unnoticed: Now, therefore, be it Resolved, That the Senate designates April 6 of each year as ``National Tartan Day.— Unsigned, by: / talk 01:16, 28 July 2016‎

This actually has nothing to do with sovereign citizenship and deals with (a) 'defining a state (Scotland) as being distinct from another state (England)', (b) 'We the people (as defining a state)' and (c) the basis for Scottish-themed jollities. Anna Livia (talk) 10:26, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Note about the "class bias" in the article - I think that is wrong[edit]

A LEO said that the "sovereign citizens" only seem to squat in "million dollar homes". The article note this is "class bias". I doubt it. It seems that he wa just pointing out that their interpretation of the law is inevitably tied to their self-interest. They will inevitably "discover" the law "allows" them expensive toys for nothing,— Unsigned, by: / talk 11:17, 14 October 2016‎



should we add a section on outlawry - the historical legal status in which the law did not apply to you - and so you could be killed without legal consequence? (talk) 02:30, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Broke / Woke[edit]

Tired: I won't pay this, I'm a sovereign citizen

Wired: I won't pay this, I'm a Soviet citizen

The FCP Foundation (talk/stalk) 18:16, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Comparison with other ideas of Sovereignty[edit]

The contrast with the UK is incorrect. Sovereignty is split between the Crown and Parliament, with Parliament having the majority (There are complications around the Human Rights Act, since in the British constitution it is not possible for a court to strike down legislation). — Unsigned, by: / talk 20:27, 27 February 2018