User talk:Doggedpersistence/Archive2

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Such a hostile environment. You're chasing off good faith contributors. RobS 14:36, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

It must be true, since you're still here. --Kels 14:38, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
Just for comparison, Rob, keep in mind that if this were CP, you'd have been banhammered long ago for violating the 90/10 rule. Here, on the other hand, we welcome your many Talk page contributions. --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 14:42, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
I was just trying to bluify the [[Henry Wallace]] link from the Main Page[1], but it seems pretty obvious RW is engaged in censorship. And the spirit of collaboration and balance seems wanting as well. RobS 14:51, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Hostile? Not a bit of it! We love you RobS! I actually thought your contribution to the Dick Cheney article was really good, and I would have kept it, but in the end I'm one of the self-appointed Category monkeys around these parts and it was too long-winded. But it was funny. But your article on Whatshisname was really just a CP article, and that's not what we want here. We want the truth, without bias, you see. Or lulz. One or the other. DogP 14:53, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Compare my contrib here with the CP entry, it was not a direct cut and paste. And all the info was cited properly. RobS 14:56, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

I wasn't really saying it was a cut n' paste job from CP - I was saying it was LIKE a CP article. And that's you, and not us. And was bored by it. By the way, I want to officially welcome you to my Talk page. Having battled you very very frequently - and been banned by you many times - I want to extend the hand of international friendship to you, welcome you here, and ask you not to set the FBI on me please. Now, how may I be of assistance? You could start by trying to enter your Horace Whathisface article again? I'm sure it would be welcome. DogP 14:59, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Rob, contributions are welcome, but not allowing wonky categories is just good wikipolicy... and not adding one-member categories is good too. Alternately, create an article of the same title and describe/cite the claim?-αmεσ (heckuva job!)15:04, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Absolutely - we'd LOVE to be in on what you know about Cheney. The enemy of our enemy is our friend, etc. DogP 15:06, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Thank you, it was my pleasure to ban you. The objection to [[Henry Wallace]] seemed to be over the length of the category name; how about [[:Catagory:US Vice Presidents who were idiots and dupes]] ? Seems short enouogh and anyone can name a half dozen who would immediately fit. RobS 15:07, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
Actually I was just a kid when Cheney was Chief of Staff of Wisconsin Gov. Warren Knowles in the 1960s; I was just cutting my teeth as a campaign operative tearing up Eugene McCarthy yard signs for the Nixon campaign in those days....
I never really saw the article or category before it was nuked earlier, but what's the point of them? Are they refuting something? If so, what? If they're just ladling on the conspiracy theories onto someone long dead to satisfy your stiffy for commie plots, maybe you'd be better off developing it at CP. --Kels 15:09, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Hmmm? Seems like you hit Save too soon? You've cut yourself off in mid-sentence Rob, which on CP would be what happened if you were banned but won't happen here. Now, anyway, you're getting completely muddled up about your own entries Rob - you assigned that category to the Dick Cheney article, not Harry Knickerbocker. You are conflating your own edits. And the problem with the category as Ames pointed out is that it's not a good idea to have Category names that are long-winded and have only one entry. And yes, I really enjoyed being banned by you. DogP 15:12, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

We do already have [[Category:US Vice Presidents that have shot people while in office]] with two entries, including Cheney. --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 15:16, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Yes, and that's enough funny, long category names for that article. Rob - I'm curious, on a purely personal level. Where and how did you develop your obsession deep interest in Communist plots to overthrow the US Government? You clearly are a knowledgeable fellow, but what happened in your own life to get you so fired up abou this? DogP 15:17, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

As a kid growing up in Wisconsin, Sen. McCarthy's constituency educated me on what the liberal media would not report. They all told me they would never live to hear the truth, and told me that I would. It truelly has been a lifelong mission. RobS 15:20, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

" They all told me they would never live to hear the truth, and told me that I would." Hmm? I'm sorry, the meaning of that isn't clear? DogP 15:24, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

For example: FDR encouraged sit down strikes in the 1930s; during the War, one such sit down strike occurred at the Allis Chalmers plant in West Allis WI, hampering the War effort. FDR personally travelled there secretly to encourage the workers to return to work. My ex-wife grew up two blocks from the plant. I know too many people personally, and have been trained how to determine credible testimony for historical writing.
In recent years, I've known many, many oldtimers (few are left now) who worked at [[Los Alamos]] during the Manhattan project. In historical writing, nothing compares to first hand eyewitness experience and accounts. RobS 15:27, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

I was just there about two months ago! A fascinating place, although I was desperately disappointed I couldn't visit any of the bomb-making labs. Perhaps I was a little naive to expect that though. It was pretty scary seeing how close the fires two years ago got to the town/labs. In fact, very scary. Have you ever visited the 'Hole' - Ed Grothus' place? It's truly incredible. After visiting there, I went down to the VLA and White Sands too, and the Titan Missile Museum. A great road trip. (PS If you don't mind, I'm delinking your Allis redlink - we have too many of those as it is) DogP 15:33, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

"...nothing compares to first hand eyewitness experience and accounts."After it has been subjected to proper methodical source criticism, of course. --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 15:30, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
Yes. I mention the Allis Chalmers business cause I found a refernce to it yesterday in a 40,000 page FBI file I've been researching. Also, my step Grand-father was Hungarian, fought in an Austrian regiment on the Eastern front in WWI, was in Munich in 1923, and relayed his own views on International Communism in the 1950s. My father, like Joe McCarthy, was a Marine in the pacific War (fought at Iwo Jima), and had certain attitudes about why he dropped out of high school and risked his life after it was discovered the Korean War came about because of New Dealers.
The National Atomic Museum in Albuquerque is pretty good too. [2] They have actual duplicate casings built at the same time as Fat Man & Little Boy, and the H-bomb at Bikini atoll. I live about three blocks from the Greenglass's apartment where Harry Gold got the inforamtion that sent the Rosenbergs to the chair; but recent research now tells the story how [[Lona Cohen]], the real courier for the bomb to the Soviets, almost got busted when she was doing it just a few blocks from that site. RobS 15:43, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
The sub museum in Groton CT is cool, too. They have a polaris (?) missile (denuked, of course), and a nuclear powered and armed sub bolted to the dock that you can tour. humanbe in 15:46, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
Ah home sweet home, they used to sell blue prints of the first bombs out of the gift shop but home land security put a stop to that. It also used to be located on base which was pretty cool...again home land security nixed that. The coolest area though in NM in regards to this element of its history it the trinity site. I have several pieces of trininite that I procured form my vists there. 15:50, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, I wanted to get to the Albuquerque museum, but the darn West is too darn big and I couldn't darn get to everything. You should talk to Ed Grothus, he's batshit crazy, but a funny old codger and madly obsessed with the Nuke labs - he worked there until the end of the Sixties. Great guy - but completely hatstand. And sorry, but I'm removing the red on Lona - I'm sure you have that well covered on CP. DogP 15:53, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Yes. They now open it twice a year, one Saturday at the end of April and October. You park you car, ride a bus to ground zero, and return. It's an all day adventure whereever you're coming from. Oldtimers here say they heard the blast in 1945 from the test 200 miles away. One story is told how a 5 year old girl blind since birth saw a flash of light.
Say, anybody familiar with this site? [3] This is created by a very good friend of mine I've known several years; in fact, he's siting here with me right now. I'm am trying to introduce him to wikis. RobS15:58, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
He's also got this site. RobS 16:05, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
The blind girl seeing the explosion is not really true but an interesting read. 16:10, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Hmmm....and suddenly things take a nasty turn, and where your friend learns more about public debate on a wiki where open opinion is welcomed. I'm afraid I would take a poor view of your friend, and I'm not remotely surprised you call him a friend- your sort tends to run in packs. First, tell him his israelamerica site displays like shit in Safari - completely screwed up, text layers overlapping images, etc. Second, it's not hard to see him, like you, as pond-dwelling scum. Specifically:

  • "Islam is probably the farthest of all the major religions from the truth". As usual, people of one religion claiming superiority against another religion. Bigot. You're all cunts, and I'm right.
  • "Their prophet, Mohahmed, was a pedophile and ruthless murderer". More of the same, except even more obnoxious. Hate speech.
  • "The basically a call to arms against those who believe in freedom and morality". Ah yes, and the Bible isn't being used as such by fucking Christians, no? Bigoted shitheads.
  • "We can't outlaw it here in America, because unlike Muslims, we believe in freedom of speech." Lucky Muslims. You bunch of xenophobes.

Sorry Rob, pleasantries over. I knew it wouldn't last long. DogP 17:05, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Well, it's the JDL. He's aware of the reputation they've acquired.
Me, I'm moreless retired from operational work (and no, I've never been connected with the JDL), and only writing history now. Truth be told, I don't know what's on those sites, I asked him if there was any offensive four letter words, etc., He refered to the ADL this morning as "mainstream." I thought that was rather humourous.
On another note, here's another inside story: [4] the location in red is the Greenglass's apartment where it was thought for 50 years the operational workings of the bomb were passed to the KGB; the green mark is where the real courier of the atomic bomb, Lona Cohen, related the story about the Kleenex box[5] where she almost got busted carrying the information. RobS 17:22, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

"Islam is probably the farthest of all the major religions from the truth". Classic the-made-up-bullshit-I-believe is more real than the-made-up-bullshit-you-believe logic there. You gotta love it. And since Christianity and Islam are both monothesitic religions based on some of the same traditions, wouldn't it be safer to say that something like Hinduism, with it's numerous gods with their multiple arms and elephant heads, is "further from the truth" than Islam (assuming you're coming from a Christian perspective)? DickTurpis 14:40, 20 September 2007 (EDT)

Tin foil hats required below this point: Geez, part 2[edit]

Enough about these trivialities--I'm waiting to hear the inside story on how Rock and Roll and water flouridation fit into he International Communist Conspiracy! --- 17:37, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

That's old stuff (and yes, I do have the cites). However the flouridation scheme I think may actually be more part of a disinformation campaign, i.e. how opponents of big gubmint oppose flouridation, and how a vote for the Reagan budget axe meant you kid getting rotten teeth, cause we certainly have enough evidence in that regard. RobS 17:49, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
They're putting flour in the water now? What right-wingnut theory is that? Genghis Khant 18:44, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
Leavened or unleavened? CЯacke®
See here. humanbe in 21:04, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
I think you'll find that has nothing to do with flour, Human. Please don't sidetrack such an interesting thread. Genghis Khant 14:30, 20 September 2007 (EDT)
What sidetrack? And you blame me? Flour and water make GLUE!!!! Flour, water and yeast make... bread... how cna that be a sidetrack? Sheeshhhhhhh humanbe in 01:28, 26 September 2007 (EDT)
Hey, I found it, The Fluoride Deception by Christopher Bryson, Seven Stories Press, May 2004[6], "the ties between leading fluoride researchers and the corporations who funded and benefited...the duplicity with which fluoridation was sold to the people....should provoke renewed scientific scrutiny and public debate." RobS 00:49, 26 September 2007 (EDT)
As per Rock and Roll, actually there is much support from, of all places, the Royal Institute of International Affairs. Seems one of the big wheels in forging the Anglo-American alliance, according to Prof. Carroll Quigley, was also the director of Chatham House and wrote this, Vulgarity and Barbarism in Art. Acording to this theory, its less a commie conspiracy and more a social trend as the result of contacts between civilizations in time and space. Toynbee gives several examples, the civilized Romans adopted the language idioms and music of the Germanic barbarian, and the Germanic barbarians adopted the civilized Romans habits like eating with a knife and fork which did wonders to slow the spread of cholerea and hepatitis, and extended life expectancy. It's a win-win situation. RobS19:42, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

That seems to suggest that cultural contact is good; nothing at all about communism...-αmεσ (heckuva job!) 21:10, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Toynbee's two sections Vulgarity and Barbarism in Manners, and Vulgarity and Barbarism in Art are must reads. The full text is not available from that link, I could get it someone wants it. But notice Toynbee puts them in the final phase (Vol V), "The Disintegrations of Civilizations" as another symptom of decay. Interesting, Toynbee's the guy who more than anyone else promoted the terms "World Order" and "Great Society" already back in the 1930s. Chris Matthews of Hardball, when he wrote the famous "malaise" speech for Jimmy Carter, got the word from Toynbee. And Nixon & Kissinger got the idea of Detente from Toynbee writing about a US-Soviet detente as early as 1952. RobS 21:30, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

Hey Rob, sorry I got distracted by work there and dropped out of the conversation. This is fascinating - as an avid music fan, I'm intrigued. I know the music of some early punk was utterly anarchic - witness Crass, Chumbawumba (later destroyed by internecine infighting after the incredible global hit that was "I Get Knocked Down"), etc - and I often suspected an attempt was being made to subvert me through the medium of the music press - the NME in particular being a Godless rag which I rabidly consumed weekly. Merely listening to Crass made me feel like I was practically a Communist, so that was pretty powerful, and I do think it affected me even to this day. Anyway, do go on - do you believe there was any plan to subvert Western culture through the music of Wham! for example? Or Rick Astley? DogP13:23, 20 September 2007 (EDT)

Rick could have been one of the greats if he hadn't suffered from stage fright. Genghis Khant 14:30, 20 September 2007 (EDT)
Did you know western civilization was saved by sheer chance, when a malfuction revealed that Milli Vanilli were lip-syncing, discrediting them forever and scuttling their nefarious communist plot to subvert the rule of law in the United States? It's true. DickTurpis 14:36, 20 September 2007 (EDT)
No no no, it was when a young John Lennon tipped the Beatles hand and revealed that they were planning to supplant Christianity (eventually, with worldwide atheism and peace, ugh)! humanbe in 15:12, 20 September 2007 (EDT)
You know, at Conservapedia, cocaine is more popular than Jesus. [7] DickTurpis 16:37, 20 September 2007 (EDT)
If only the Beatles were. At least pornography is! humanbe in 17:12, 20 September 2007 (EDT)

Toynbee's a bit difficult to quote mine, not without getting a feel for his methodolgy first. I'd recommend beginning withThe Mechanicalness of Mimesis, then we can move onto Schism in the Body Social, Dominant Minorities, Internal Proletariats, Alien and Indigenous Inspirations, Alternative Ways of Behavior Feeling and Life, Abandon and Self-Control, The Sense of Drift and the Sense of Sin, The Sense of Promiscuity, and finally Vulgarity and Barbarism in Manners, andVulgarity and Barbarism in Art where things like Rock & Rap are discussed. RobS 12:54, 21 September 2007 (EDT)

One thing I'll never understand about Toynbee is how he can propose such ideas as " consider only those twenty-one civilizations..." when an adequate study of even one of them would occupy an entire career. The superficiality is overwhelming.--AKjeldsenGodspeed! 13:33, 21 September 2007 (EDT)
This has been discussed on WP's talk entry on Toynbee. I think he used the staff at the RIIA to ghost write much of it -- in addition to his duties as editor of Survey of International Affairs. According to WP, A Study of History is the sinlge longest work in the English Language written by one person, some 12 volumes over 37 years. Nobody can find a source for this claim however. And WP Arbitrator Charles Matthews, who claims to be a 5th cousin of the Toynbee's disputes my theory he didn't write it all himself.
Samuel P. Huntington introduced a new term, "civilizational" with his Clash of Civilizations, so now a field of "Civilizational historians" studying "civilizational aspects" is coming into existence. Huntington's Clash of Civilizations, for the uninformed reader, does not build directly upon Toynbee. Toynbee entitled his volumes on those subjects, Contacts Between Civilizations in Time and Contacts Between Civilizations in Space, so "Clash" is regarded as hyperbolic.
As to being "superficial" Toynbee extensively discusses other theories whether there are 23, 26, 31 or as high as 33 Civilizations which have appeared on planet earth, charts it out which is available in Sommervell's Abridged veersion of A Study of History and may be available as a google book. Huntington resumes the discussion, whether there are 6, or 8 or 9 living Civilizations today. Huntington goes two steps further and (1) declares Japan a separate Civilization from the "Far Eastern Civilization", and (2) takes the politically correct step of declaring an "African Civilization", being that prior to this the general concensus was Africa never produced an indigeneous Civilization of it own, and only adopted civilizations imposed upon it from Western Christendom or Islam or whereever. RobS 11:49, 22 September 2007 (EDT)
Great. History, however, is not (or at least ought not to be) a field based on pulling concepts like "civilizations" or "laws of history" or whatever out of thin air. As you well know, it is a field based in the study and analysis of sources, because not only do the sources provide us with our basic data material, when studied in detail, they also often provide us with essential correctives to our own natural tendency to think up theories that are probably a bit too creative.
This, of course, is the central problem with Toynbee. Rather than being impressed with the massive size and scope of the work, we need to realize that it is in fact its greatest weakness, because whether or not Toynbee wrote the whole thing itself or had assistance, a superficial treatment of the sources is inevitable when you try to deal with a an analysis of a massive 23 different cultures over a span of several thousand years. How could he/they possibly read even a small fraction of the available source material? Not to mention the problem of languages - did Toynbee speak Sanskrit? Or Mandarin?
Then you have the equally significant issue that cultures or "civilizations", or whatever you want to call them, are by definition different, not only from each other, but they also have considerable regional and chronological differences within themselves. To fully understand even one of these cultures would be a considerable undertaking, let alone 23 different cultures- and you could go on like this forever. See Peter Geyl's various works for more detailed criticisms.
So with all these problems with A Study of History, I simply fail to see how it is - can be - anything other than a simplistic collection of secondary sources, anecdotes and unfounded speculation, and as such basically... uninteresting.--AKjeldsenGodspeed! 16:57, 22 September 2007 (EDT)
Toynbee actaully covers some of these "superficial" topics you reference, for example, "5. WAS THERE ONE ONLY, OR MORE THAN ONE, CIVILIZATION IN SYRIA IN THE LAST MILLENIUM B.C.?" in the final volume, "Reconsiderations". But I'd recommend starting at page 143, V. THE NEED FOR COMPREHENSIVE STUDY OF HUMAN AFFAIRS. If you were looking for sources on some of these subjects, Toynbee might be one place to begin (I'd recommend it any day over Wikipedia, although I disagree with many of Toynbee's conclusions, I enjoy his method very much). RobS 18:06, 23 September 2007 (EDT)
I don't doubt that Toynbee covers some of these subjects very well - considering his biography, I'm sure that he was a skilled and intelligent person. What I'm questioning is 1) his basic approach and philosophy of history, and 2) that it is possible for one person or small group of persons to cover the history of all of these various cultures in an even remotely adequate manner, in the way that he proposes. --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 19:35, 23 September 2007 (EDT)


Toynbee was and remains an interesting figure; many historians do not consider Tonybee an historian at all. He was the head of a British think tank for many many years, which Carroll Quigley cites as the nexus of the British leg of the "Anglo-American Establishmient." It would be the "Anglo-American Establishement," together with the Comintern, that constituted the "Big Three' which defeated the Axis Powers and initially established the United Nations Organization. As cited above, as early as 1952, Toynbee was already speaking of the possibility of Detante, at a time of Red hysteria in the US parallelling the anti-Semitic Doctor's plot and show trials in the USSR.

Tonybee's section here, The Significance of Hitler's Bid for World-Dominion, was written in the midst of the Korean War:

"...if a future follower in Hitler's footsteps was unlikely to make Hitler's mistakes, he could … win the prize ...for himself, Hitler had left the prize dangling ……In an age of atomic warfare … in a world whose unification was already an accomplished fact … there were three peoples that had also incurred a special measure of moral responsibility for seeing to it that an urgently needed world order should be established without another catastrophe …these same victors over Hitlerwould bring down upon their own heads Posterity's curses if they were to allow a third world war to rankle out of their victory…the peoples of the United States, the Soviet Union, and Great Britain had taken upon themselves a binding moral obligation to provide Mankind with a better world order… Should the ex-victors now fail to accomplish this self-imposed task, they must expect to share … an intolerably tormented Mankind so long as any memory survived of Mankind's history in the twentieth century of the Christian Era."

Speaking personally, while I do not always agree with Toynbee's conclusions, and admire his method of investigation very much, let me personally associate my own views with Toynbee's conclusions above, which no other writer I know of has expressed so well and so clearly. RobS 15:54, 27 September 2007 (EDT)

I see. Anyway, considering your failure to directly address the points of criticism I'm bringing up, I expect we can agree that he was a terrible historian, but possibly a good essay-writer. --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 13:53, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

Geez part 3: Depends![edit]

Sam Huntington's Clash, while a seminal work and important to understanding the development of political science, is widely discredited and a subject of vigorous debate in the political science community. I don't know what the gist of this debate is or has been, but Huntington is not someone you should rely upon. As a fun sidenote, another political scientist wrote a long and vigorous refutation of Clash... in verse. It begins: +

  • We owe to Samuel Huntington a potent provocation, +
  • A trenchant tract to counteract a clear exaggeration... +

This appeared in "Foreign Policy," some time ago. An error typical of Huntington is to class Israel as an "Arab" civilization. Hilarious.-αmεσ (heckuva job!) 12:09, 22 September 2007 (EDT)

Huntington came out of the Carter Administration, so of course he's suspect. His basic idea was that after the Cold War, the only thing that remained was conflict between Civilizations which had been supressed by the threat of nuclear annihilation during the Cold War. His most famous quote is about "Islam's bloody borders", how wherever Islam borders other Civilizations, it has conflict. The full (from memory) goes something like this "Islam has bloody borders, and bloody innards." After 9/11, some people started viewing Huntington as a prophet (he wrote it in 1995), but the US State Department, not wanting to take onall of Islam is scared to death the US foreign policy being seen among Muslims as based upon Huntington's ideas. So they never ever cease denying "it is not a Clash of Civilizations" "it is not a Clash of Civilizations." Only makes sense, the extremists and terrorists must be marginialized as only a fringe of Islamic society, constituting at best 18 or 20 million (wheeww, what a number), because Western Civiliaztion is in no position to take on all of Islamic Civilization. This is what yuou are probably referring to, nonetheless, Huntington still should be read, and Toynbee really is the key to understanding Huntington. RobS 12:18, 22 September 2007 (EDT)
I preferred Joe Strummer's Clash. humanbe in 19:36, 22 September 2007 (EDT)

Wow. I get busy with work and domestic stuff for a few days and return here to find my Talk page has been overtaken by this wonky madness. Brilliant! Rob, keep it up. I might ban you for a second or two for cluttering up my pages, but then I'd have to ban Ames and AK too, and that wouldn't be right. And yes, when it comes to the Clash, "I'm So Bored With The USA". I'm gonna be in modem land for the next few weeks, so I'll barely be checking in at all I imagine, but I hope you all have fun in the meantime. DogP 13:43, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

Bye for now[edit]

Come back soon DogP - missing you already.Susantalk to me 14:01, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

Hurry back - I hope we didn't anger you in some way? Goatspeed and keep in touch, ¡hasta October!αmεσ (heckuva job!) 14:19, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

No no, not at all - I think this discussion is fantastic! I'm thrilled to entertain such a erudite chat in my living room - I was just layin' here, eatin' crisps and chugging beers, watchin' porn, then my intellectual pals came over to visit. No, I'm just going on vacation for a while. DogP 15:21, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

happy holiday then!-αmεσ (heckuva job!) 15:23, 23 September 2007 (EDT)
When come back, bring π! We'll be sure to clutter your talk page even more while you're gone. --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 15:39, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

Aaaaaaannnnd here we are back again. What has been going on? How can I help? Has Rob been around? I feel like I've been away for ever. DogP 00:17, 8 November 2007 (EST)

Welcome back! You missed some exciting events. T-NightTrain-K finally had enough of us and posted a website exposing our evil. Check out Other than that, not much else, I don't think...-αmεσ (heckuva job!) 00:29, 8 November 2007 (EST)

Irish Eh?[edit]

Top of the mornin to ya from a fellow countryman. didn't know there were other irishers on here. airdish 14:53, 5 December 2007 (EST)

I suspect there's loads of us. Conservapedia is such a big hit in Ireland (check Alexa rankings) I suspect mostly because it's so funny. DogP 14:57, 5 December 2007 (EST)

In the absence of Father Ted, how are all of us reformed Christians gonna get our lulz? i suppose... airdish 15:02, 5 December 2007 (EST)


Hey. I recall we had a bit of fun with Ed's metaphors a while back. Any interest in trying to get his XXX up to 11?DickTurpis 22:03, 11 December 2007 (EST)

Oooh, yes I enjoyed that, I wonder how that lasted? What was that article again? Yes, I'm game. Let's go! DogP 00:24, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Bell Curve, and still there, or was recently. My IP's blocked (and I'm no good at getting around such things) so it's up to you. However, I notice the article doesn't say what town the archer was from, or what land it takes place in....DickTurpis 00:43, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Fantastic! That's the best thing I've read in quite some time. I think I lost count around 15. DickTurpis14:10, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Yes, I think it's up to 25 now. DogP 14:14, 12 December 2007 (EST)

I'm talking about just the last sentence. I count 14, though there are a few which look like PP's but I think aren't in that context. DickTurpis 14:20, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Yes, I amped that last sentence up as much as I could, but I also added a lot in the first section. Overall, I'm happy, although it might be worth revisiting in a little while to, ahem, expand the article. I'm glad to see Bell Curve stands as we left it! DogP 14:23, 12 December 2007 (EST)


Do you have any interest? We would love to see you there… --Linus(plot evil tech) 16:44, 18 December 2007 (EST)

You don't appear to be registered, so I recommend you simply create a new account. --Linus(plot evil tech) 13:28, 21 December 2007 (EST)
Oh, and be sure to post on lots of threads. New blood! --Linus(plot evil tech) 13:38, 21 December 2007 (EST)
Yeah, I'll try to rectify that posthaste. --Linus(plot evil tech) 17:50, 28 December 2007 (EST)
Are you talking to yourself? Pinto's5150 Talk 17:52, 28 December 2007 (EST)
Er, no. Unless I'm imagining that I'm not. --Linus(plot evil tech) 18:52, 28 December 2007 (EST)
Someone must have been pong-pinging to keep their conversations so seekrit! humanUser talk:Human 01:38, 29 December 2007 (EST)

external images[edit]

I don't think they can be used. I downloaded that eggplant, cropped and resized, and uploaded it; fixed the format at aschlafly. humanUser talk:Human 14:58, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Great, thx Human. DogP 15:03, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

While you're at it[edit]

Please delete [[Armchair Stormchaser Wannabes]] which was accidentally created while intending to create it as a category. Thanks - Secret Squirrel 16:39, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

While we were hard at it, which one of us pissed off Mr. Squirrel? humanUser talk:Human 22:10, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
I'm not sure we pissed him off? Seems he just got all fired up to get to work himself? All that catting insanity was my St.Patricks Day avoidance of doing my taxes. DogP 22:12, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
I'm not sure, either, but he did blank his talk page. Who knows... strange that he started "missioning" all over the place, as he has added plenty of good but, shall we say "interesting" content. Let's hope we didn't :) humanUser talk:Human 22:19, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Category links[edit]

(God damn how do I post a link to a category without assigning the category to the page?) —DogP

You insert a colon between the brackets and the word "category", like so: [[:Category:RationalWiki]], which creates Category:RationalWiki. --Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 19:40, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Thanks a million RA. DogP 19:41, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
Any time! Well, not necessarily any time, I do have to sleep you know, but you get the idea --Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 19:45, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

President Schlafly[edit]

Looking forward to seeing the campaign gather momentum. ;) --Robledo 18:26, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

Muahahahaha!!! Someone needs to slip that beaut to someone who can edit CP! humanUser talk:Human 18:47, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Who should I sign up as? Hmmm, who is my anti-Cripes on CP? Not ken doll (and he's already taken)... Karajou? Maybe...humanUser talk:Human 18:49, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Resurrect RobS - he's probably the most fun character to write for. Crank up the batshit paranoia and if you're ever in a tight spot, just change the subject! --Robledo 19:29, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Ah, that's who I was trying to remember, thanks! I signed in as Kangaroon, if any one wants to play Navy Mormon, I'll chang ethe password and pass it along. humanUser talk:Human 19:54, 19 March 2008 (EDT)


Your Irish too. Well done. (I wonder did you really need a pat on the back for that) MarcusCicero 08:26, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

Absolutely! Well done me for being a Mick! Hurray for us Boggers! DogP 14:06, 29 March 2008 (EDT)

Just curious[edit]

Your userbox says you were purged in the Night of the Blunt Knives but DoggedPersistence wasn't blocked until June 11 (almost a month later). Did you edit under a different name before then? 13:16, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

Yes indeed. Many. DogP 13:18, 31 March 2008 (EDT)
Ah. I've just been trying to remember who you were on CP but I guess you were too many people to remember specifically. 13:25, 31 March 2008 (EDT)
To be honest, I've forgotten many, many of my socks myself. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and go check on one when they pop into my head. I can't be sure of my sock career, as I used to create so many in a day, and then forget who I'd been. It got really bad for a while. Only last week I remembered three more, went to CP and discovered they've not been blocked - so they may get slowly resurrected. Since Jan 2008 I've resurrected five old ones, who are now very active indeed. As to the userboxen totals above, I update the numbers at random, days, weeks or months after the fact to avoid CP spy activity. In some cases I update the numbers before a sock creation or death happens, if I know I'm going on a kamikaze mission. It's fun to keep them guessing, if they even care, or check, which I'm not so arrogant as to assume they do. But I know TK does, from time to time.... Finally, none of the above may be true at all. DogP 13:39, 31 March 2008 (EDT)
Exactly. Disinformation is the key to fomenting paranoia. Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the DogPs of war! — Unsigned, by: Genghis Khant / talk / contribs

you know better...[edit]

...than to try to format the expelled leader's guide ;) What are you trying to do? Pretty up the quotes in the Dehumanization section? (PS, it's "easiest" to do by editing the entire article, since then "preview" works properly) humanUser talk:Human 20:31, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

Point taken. Duh. DogP 20:58, 31 March 2008 (EDT)
By the way, last night I thought of a better, easier-to-edit way to set up side-by-sides. Remind me not to forget to load it up sometime, okay? humanUser talk:Human 21:06, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

God! I'm BORED![edit]

EvilCat.jpg SusanG 20:31, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

Hurray for boredom! Actually that little fucker just came in and demanded his tea, I'm summoned away by his furry ass. DogP 20:32, 2 April 2008 (EDT)


I love the Scientology cartoon. We don't know anyone with upload rights at CP, do we? It should really be added to their Scientology article; it's no less encyclopedic than their mind of a liberal illustration. I wonder what they'd think of it. It is the one area where we're in basic agreement. I'd love to see the discussion it would produce. DickTurpis10:47, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, it would indeed work perfectly on both sites. As to upload rights, none of my socks are that privileged! Maybe we can get Fuzzy Kettleticket to upload it and see what happens? DogP 11:47, 7 April 2008 (EDT)


Out of total curiosity, was JackieHealyRay your sock? God, Ed's a touchy fecker. Angband 15:21, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

Um, yes. Well spotted, you win the hang sangwidge. DogP


I have some questions that need answering, DogP. --Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 03:42, 12 May 2008 (EDT)


This might not seem like such a good idea after the drugs wear off, but could your store sell a Godspeedo?DickTurpis 23:07, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

Let them wear off. If you can get away with a Speedo, you don't need any other message ;) ħumanUser talk:Human 23:15, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
Har har har. You chaps are hella funny. Which I 'spose is why I hang around here. Top marks, Turpis! DogP
I don't have any (non-prescription) drugs in my system, and I think it's a good idea. Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.23:29, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, I stand by my idea. How tough would it be to get a few brightly colored speedos and silk screen the word "GODSPEEDO" above the crotch. Or "GOD'S SPEEDO"? Which works better? DickTurpis 00:05, 21 June 2008 (EDT)
I'll jump right on it. Will have to request Cafepress stock Speedo items, but I'm sure they'll comply. DogP 00:22, 21 June 2008 (EDT)
Hey, if you can do it for a reasonable price, I'll seriously consider buying one to be shipped to Andy (if someone can supply his address). Well, no promises. Ask me again when I'm sober.
Think he may need a weapon of gun bib, too. DickTurpis 00:25, 21 June 2008 (EDT)
No Speedos for those armed with smallishly non=weapon of tiny pee pee, eh? ħumanUser talk:Human 02:25, 21 June 2008 (EDT)
I was thinking a Godspeedo would be a good present for the winner of the idiocy award, then I realized that the winner will likely be Ed. I think I've already done enough damage to the collective psyche by even putting the thought into words, I could never inflict that upon the world by giving it physical form. It would be the worst thing to happen to NYC since 9/11.
Maybe a You're Clueless shirt or something? Or a bib to symbolize their intellectual immaturity.DickTurpis 08:20, 21 June 2008 (EDT)


Ken is now tied for second in the polls! His frontrunner status disappeared more quickly and thoroughly than Guiliani's! We need to step up the campaign before the polls close. We need grassroots campaigns, we need community organizers, we need direct mailings, we need push-polling, we need TV spots, and we need high profile endorsements. We need it all. The worst part is he's dead even with Karajou, who probably has a lock on bigest asshole, but for idiocy cannot match Andy, Joaquin, or Ed, let alone Ken. We need to get crackin'. DickTurpis 18:20, 23 June 2008 (EDT)

Have you thought of swiftboating the competition yet? Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 23:57, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Oh, I tried swiftboating. Unfortunately, to swiftboat in this sort of contest means you have to make the competition lookgood. That, my friend, is a challenge! DickTurpis 08:20, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
I'm also trying to pull a Florida Recount, and have ambiguous votes tossed out. DickTurpis 08:21, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
None but the best deserve this prestigious honour. <blink></blink> 00:01, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
I had been thinking of offering a selection of Ed voters a decent bung? That might 'help them see things more clearly'? DogP 02:57, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Cafepress shop not working?[edit]

The link on your user page didn't work--it took me to an error page saying it didn't exist or was moved. --Gulik01:18, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

:-) Due to the overwhelming response, and skyrocketing sales, I've had to move the operation offshore to the Bahamas. It will return as a local Big-Box store in due course.
Well, actually, no. Cafepress give you two weeks free, then start charging you. And since sales were precisely zero, I decided to shutter the operation within the free period. Let's face it, the, uhm, potential market for apparel with Stevecarson and Professor Values jokes is, well...basically it's us here on RW. So, that's like, about five people. DogP 12:50, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
Are you sure? I would have sworn it was at least seven. Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 15:42, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

Huh, Wha?[edit]

THAT was a pretty fast game of freeze tag... --SpinyNorman 19:22, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

See my talk page for an answer[edit]

<begin schlaflyspeak> I have answered your ignorant and rude question on my talk page, it is obvious from the design of your question that you have no intrest in helping the project. Godspeed

אנדי שלאפלי איז א פאץ What, you can't read it? Learn how to speak Yiddish 08:54, 10 August 2008 (EDT)


Thanks for your hard work on the Andrew Schlafly (no jokes) article, I am really glad it is coming along so nicely I think it is important work. tmtoulouse plague 01:56, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

Ta, TMT - yeah, I think it's coming along nicely. Needs lots of work thought, and people seem to sometimes miss the point -I think it needs to be totally impassive, incontestable. DogP02:02, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
Yes, it's hard work to write in the fashion that article requires. So, Trent, how come you didn't whip up a bahstah for the Dog man??? I suppose I could do one... when he's done, that is, hehe (crack that whip!! - Devo) ħumanUser talk:Human 02:14, 12 August 2008 (EDT)


I'll let you revert your own edit if you want, on coulter, but the fun:water link is a way of saying "everone". "Water" is what we would have called "Earth" had we seen it from space, first. So, "some people on Water (ie., earth) disagree with ann coulter". --Waiting for Godot 13:54, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Damn! I wish I'd thought of that! Jollyfish.gifГенгисYou have the right to be offended; and I have the right to offend you. 13:58, 2 September 2008 (EDT)
Hmmm...seems a little tortuous to me. Out of context, that's not what comes across - I do get it, but it's reaching. And it'd be funnier if the link was just to planet Earth, no? DogP14:08, 2 September 2008 (EDT)
It was funnier when "they" let me have my "water" article in the mainspace :( One more dead meme, oh well.ħumanUser talk:Human 23:37, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

Other matters[edit]

Ooooo. I think you're pressing your luck there, Heston. DickTurpis 23:09, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

"The Palin Presidency"[edit]

Well, we sure have come a long way since the Johnson flower girl Goldwater nuclear holocaust ad. DickTurpis23:18, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

Except for the intruding reality of dominionist Revelationist Christian nutjobs, yeah... ħumanUser talk:Human 00:27, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

I think that was an accident?[edit]

I'm guessing you meant to link to conservapedia instead your proxy of choice at twigo? Pinto's5150 Talk 15:13, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

Ahem. Er, yes. DogP 15:15, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

You have sunk so low...[edit]

As to merit another demotion! Hail Bureaucrat Doggedpersistence! Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 02:02, 6 October 2008 (EDT)

Hmmm? What? Oh no! I've ben targetted for Beauraucratocracy? Why am I on this vile hitlist? I guess I'll just have to take it like a man. Bring it on! DogP 11:35, 6 October 2008 (EDT) PS What do I do now?
Well, whenever I find myself bureaucratized, I try to find someone to sysop. Or I rename a vandal a ridiculous name. Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 23:23, 6 October 2008 (EDT)