Conservapedia talk:What is going on at CP?

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What is going on?

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[edit] Cheezburger/Know Your Meme

Have picked up on andy's blog now. Oldusgitus (talk) 06:37, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

I see we get a nice mention too. And also that we're ranked nearly 14,000 places higher than CP. According to Ken logic, that means 2014 is going to be a terrible year for Conservapedia. PsyGremlinSermā! 13:58, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
They called us an encyclopedia! *looks all cross* SophieWilderModerator 14:18, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
And apparently RationalWiki was founded on the 22nd 2007. I must remember to celebrate our anniversary on the 22nd 2015. Spud (talk) 11:17, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Jpatt

Is going to be angryimg again as Joaquin tries again to insert some balance into mpr. Oldusgitus (talk) 12:14, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Does jpatt even edit anymore?--Miekal 13:02, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
Very rarely and then it is usually minor edits or defending Israelimg. Oldusgitus (talk) 13:23, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
Love how he says that Islam is "anti-semetec"[sic]. (Definiton of Semitic for the less informed: 1. A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.) Scream!! (talk) 13:42, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, but at this point, anti-Semitic basically just means Jews. It's funny if you think about the meaning of the word, but I don't hold the modern usage against him.--"Shut up, Brx." 14:58, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Something Old

No, I don't know why I do it, but in perusing the discussion of dinosaur references in the bibleimg, I stumbled across a wonderful argument for Creationism:

Furthermore, even if the terms did refer to other animals, this does not necessarily invalidate the existence of dinosaurs. The Creation account was not intended as a comprehensive list of all animals God created - it does not for instance state explicitly that He created the ferret.

There's no arguing with logic. Whoover (talk) 03:03, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

I love that article, every possible failure of logic demonstrated in one place together with many contradictions of the same fallacies. It's been heavily rewritten (and Kara is threatening to rewrite the whole thing) but my favourite bit was the recent discovery of the coelocanth is absolute proof that dinos are still running around The Congo. Sphincter (talk) 03:50, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Another great line, this from Causes of Homosexuality:img
In Genesis 19, the city of Sodom is revealed as a place in which men sexually lusted after men, from which the term "sodomy" was derived (like as homosexuals use the term "gay", although this is contradictory in the end).
No, it can't be parsed, but it's unintentionally hysterical just the same. Whoover (talk) 06:21, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

The destruction of Sodom (if it were true) was a crime against humanity. My home city has a red light district with perhaps a few hundred people involved in the illegal sex trade so it deserves to be destroyed according to biblical logic and the bible is of course the most logical book ever written. And even if, by the same perverted logic, the sex traders deserve death, what of the remaining 1/4 of a million? It is in my mind one of the most vile books ever written.--Mercian (talk) 15:29, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
Sodom wasn't just a few gay people or a few hookers or sexually liberal people, it was a town where literally every person ("But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter") will come and blockade someone's house and demand that the visitors be thrown out to be raped. The story has always had more nuance than "gays deserve to have salt related meteor deaths" but for SOME BIZARRE REASON all the crazies focus solely on the gay part. X Stickman (talk) 18:40, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
I remember an argument about the story being up for interpretation, and that since the Bible frequently uses "know" as a euphemism for sex, it could instead be describing a xenophobic police state that interrogates foreigners for the sake of being foreign.-- Forerunner (talk) 19:33, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
I find it puzzling that Genesis 19 is presented as a story from which anyone could learn anything morally laudable. You've got a town filled with homosexuals and Lot hanging out at the city gate like the midnight cowboy. It's not so clear from Lot's calm response that he even knew the two strangers entering town were angels. In some descriptions, angels are 18 foot talk winged beings. In others, they are radiant beings with eyes like lightning. The angel described in Matthew "was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men." Lot just bows deeply. So the angels, who certainly knew the townspeople would try raping them (or you can't rape the willing — who knows), insisted on spending the night in the town square. That sounds an awful lot like either drawing fouls or "when in Rome". Lot insists they spend the night in his house, with food and foot washing and whatever other nonsense — but they also certainly knew that the townspeople would surround the house and then try raping them, and that Lot would offer up his virgin daughters to be gang raped. Rape everywhere. Ehrenstein would go nuts reading that story. And then the angels tell Lot to get out of Dodge and not to look back, knowing of course that his wife would, and would be turned into a pillar of salt. Why didn't they say "but no seriously, Lot. Your wife is going to look back — don't let her or she'll die. We're not kidding." So we've got this "moral" tale about god sanctioning gang rape and putting strangers over family, destroying a whole city he set up to fail from the start, showing just how slick he was to word his covenant with Noah the way he did, and god generally treating women breathtakingly shabbily. And after losing his poor wife, Lot becomes such a hopeless alcoholic that he can't put up a fight when his depraved daughters get him so drunk they have sex with him so they can continue the family. Perhaps god gave the old guy some viagra so he could manage some sloppy drunk sex. But contrary to these weirdos' claim that they needed to have sex with dad because there weren't any other men around, there were cities full of them. They just didn't live in caves way up in the mountains having sex with their children. And to top it all off, one of the daughters has a son who becomes the patriarch of the Ammonites, who god then sets up to be major antagonists to the other Israelites and ultimately viciously genocides. Nutty Roux (talk) 20:15, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Andy in court again

This has shown up on Crooks & Liars. Andy went up against Posner and Easterbrook. I'd love to see this. — Unsigned, by: Lardashe / talk / contribs 13:31, 17 September 2014‎ (UTC)

Listen to him get savaged by Posner and Easterbrook. He can't answer direct questions. Nutty Roux (talk) 15:59, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
Wow, Andy really is a shitty lawyer. Has he ever won a case of any significance? We've seen him get hammered in those recall cases, now this. Wonder how long he'll keep his post as AAPS's legal representative? PsyGremlinSermā! 16:05, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
I doubt he'll loose it soon. Oldusgitus (talk) 16:46, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
It's possible their intention isn't necessarily to win, but to develop issues. There's great value in certainty. That's one of the benefits of stare decisis. Nutty Roux (talk) 17:06, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
Andy certainly has developed issues, on that I totally agree. Oldusgitus (talk) 17:18, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
Very fun listening. I like the way that Posner talks. He's so soft-spoken. Andy's argument is weird, and it requires some considerable gymnastics to figure out what their point of view is. I know it's intimidating to talk to these judges, but Andy comes across like he didn't put much time into researching this case. Part of how you prepare for a case is to find your arguments, but also to find the weaknesses in your arguments, and shore those defenses up. It doesn't come across like he considered that his case might be questioned. - Lardashe
Posner and Easterbrook are well known for making the best lawyers look like chuckleheads. I lost sleep worrying that they'd be on my panel when I did a 7th Circuit appeal 10 years ago. Nutty Roux (talk) 20:38, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

So definitive proof, if needed, that Andy makes an even more shite lawyer than engineer. I'd act surprised, but let's face it, Andy's inability to accept that his arguments are anything less than brilliant, insightful, and bulletproof are glaringly obvious. A question for our American experts: Can, and would, the NJ Bar take any action to disbar Andy (or any other equally shite lawyer) based on his performance in court and service he offers his clients in said venue (assuming that his performance as a lawyer was considered substandard by the bar), or are they relatively powerless to act?--Stunteddwarf Jabba de Chops 22:25, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

You're not joking, are you? No. The NJ bar would not take any action because you say so. He hasn't done anything wrong. Ehrenstein talked about trying to get my law license revoked because he doesn't like me anymore, so I understand a little better the significance of people casually talking this kind of nonsense out of their asses. How in the world does a bar knows if a lawyer's performance is "substandard"? Is it because he loses? Or because you think his arguments are crummy? To suggest that he should lose his professional license because you dislike him and have an ideological bone to pick is low. Nutty Roux (talk) 23:06, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
It takes a lot to get an attorney disbarred. And even if Andy were disbarred, it hardly would accomplish anything. He's not doing anything corrupt, he's not hurting anyone. However, I wonder if he could be goaded into complaining about Posner and Easterbrook on CP. That might be worth some laughs. Lardashe
I suspect any mention of it will be burnt and the offender banned. Previously andy has done his 'a conservapedian will be speaking before the court' bullshit whenever he wanted people to know he was spreading his crap around in front of judges. I don't think he really had any intention of trying to win this pleading, he was there because wignut welfare hass to be paid for somehow and those who pay the piper call the tune. Oldusgitus (talk) 06:00, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, my post was misunderstood. I was asking if the Bar itself has the ability to disbar somebody based on their view of the individual's competence or inability to meet a certain level of professionalism. I wasn't saying anything about making a complaint. The reason I ask is that in the UK the Bar can strike somebody off for a wide variety of reasons, and not all of them require a complaint being made about the individual, the individual just has to make enough problems to bring disgrace to the reputation of their profession. The point is, if the various State Bars don't have that power, I wonder what the point of their existence is, beyond a sort of glorified old boys club.--Stunteddwarf Jabba de Chops 11:12, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

The State Bar can do that... but it still tends to take a lot. This is the only one I know of offhand, since it's a little more prominent. But the state does disbar lawyers for poor professional conduct. - Lardashe
Wow, I think the UK (well, England & Wales) has very different ideas about poor professional conduct. Publicly insulting opposing counsel or even insulting them out of chambers is enough to see your career end with remarkable haste over here.--Stunteddwarf Jabba de Chops 12:16, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Conservapedia highlighted in a new book

I'm reading this book at the moment and Conservapedia is highlighted - in particular the Counterexamples to Relativity. Acei9 22:33, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Conservapedia in the Precambrian

They've finally gone doolally over at CP. Apparently the existence of a blastula-like fossil in the Precambrian disproves evolution. But I thought they didn't believe the cosmos, let alone animals, existed 600 million years ago....? And why do they think this disproves evolution anyway??? Does the existence of minds like Terry Hurlbut's disprove the existence of an intelligent creator? Cardinal Fang (talk) 19:24, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Well, for most of the Precambrian era, there's not supposed to have been multicellular lifeforms. Towards the end there were, though, and there's some contested examples of earlier Precambrian complex life as well.
As for how it would disprove evolution, a more complex lifeform existing "out order," that would suggest that the idea of common descent is false. It's similar to the common example explaining how evolution is falsifiable: the Precambrian rabbit. According to current scientific knowledge, life was not as complex as a rabbit in that era. Or something like that. I am not even close to an expert on the evolution of species throughout Earth's geological eras.
I haven't looked at Terry's claims or evidence, but my guess is that if it popped up on a site like CNAV, it's either complete bullshit or a more minor discovery taken out of context and blown out of proportion by people who don't know what they're doing and have an agenda--"Shut up, Brx." 19:57, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
The multi-cellular life of the Precambrian is called the Ediacaran now and possible metazoan embryos have been an interpretation of fossils from early in the period for quite a while now. I don't know what he's going on about. Whoover (talk) 20:27, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
The lying SOB even includes a 2007 photo he stole from Wikipedia, captioned to say it's from the new Nature article. These from the guys who claim deceit is only done by liberals. Whoover (talk) 20:40, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
(Edit conflict) He's talking about this. Hell if I can tell you what it really means, but it's on Nature's website, so I'm sure it counts for something--"Shut up, Brx." 20:43, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
It "means" that multicellular life didn't appear suddenly in the Cambrian. But we've known that for years. (We also have fossil evidence of multi-cellular red algae from over a billion years ago, but we get more excited by things that could be "animal" life). The Ediacaran biota is fascinating because we're not sure what it really was, but there's a lot of it and it was clearly multi-cellular and probably "animal." And some of the earliest Ediacaran fossils seem to be embryos, but since we're not sure how to classify the many Ediacaran life forms we're obviously not too sure about the nature of these embryos. The new paper merely presents some new ones. Nothing earth-shaking, but of course interesting. Creationists like to make up shit (like "multi-cellular life appeared suddenly in the Cambrian") as problems for evolution. Then they forget that they made it up as a problem and declare that evidence of pre-Cambrian multi-cellular life is now the problem for evolution. It's par for the course. The bit that's so slimy is his obviously knowing that this is old news, as evidenced by using a 2007 photo, and then claiming it's a new bombshell. I don't know why they bother. They know that there's no such thing as life because the Second Law of Thermodynamics prohibits it. Whoover (talk) 21:24, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
It may be old news, but the article he cites was published four days ago. I'm sure as hell not defending him, mind you.--"Shut upBrx." 21:29, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
Yes, it's a new paper. Paper on details of the Doushantuo Formation are published all the time. This one provides some new details on the presumed embryos, but the embryos are not new news. Terry knows this but pretends otherwise. Whoover (talk) 21:36, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
Sounds like him--"Shut up, Brx." 22:19, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
Terry should stay well away from geology and paleontology because he always makes a fool of himself when he comments on these topics. Once again it is creationists basing all their arguments on the state of knowledge from 50 years ago. Technology has uncovered a lot of stuff which wasn't available to those with just a rock hammer and hand lens. The Cambrian explosion is basically the first evidence of life for macro-creatures with skeletons, and it was a puzzle for geologists why animals suddenly appeared in the fossil record. Now that we know about Ediacarans and have fossil evidence for them it actually strengthens the case for evolution as we can see the evolutionary tree stretching farther back in time. Chuckarse thinks that finding "embryos of animals" in the Precambrian is somehow equivalent to finding a rabbit but he's missing Haldane's point which is that to prove creationism a modern animal which has gone through many stages of evolution would have to be found in the Precambrian and a "missing link" between unicellular and multicellular life is not even close to that. Redchuck.gif Генгисunbelieving Moderator 11:33, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Slight rewrite of your first sentence, Genghis: "Terry should stay well away from geology and paleontology the computer because he always makes a fool of himself when he comments on these topics." Scream!! (talk) 11:53, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
That's as maybe, but I only read Chucky's stuff about creationism when it is highlighted here. I refrain from reading his other stuff as it leaves me feeling nauseous and soiled. Redchuck.gif ГенгисIs the Pope a Catholic? Moderator 18:56, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Oh my god, Terry linked to himself three different times. All three links, from The Examiner, CNAV, and the Creation Science Hall of Fame, all saying the same thing, all written by him. This guy. Seriously, this fucking guy.--"Shut up, Brx." 20:43, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
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