Talk:Creationism in the United Kingdom

There's a Facebook group where someone had uploaded a load of pics from the Noah's Ark Zoo. It might be useful to track the best down and try to upload them here. If anything, it just shows how cheap it is next to Ken Ham's tourist trap. ^bomination 15:03, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

The Wurzels to play at Noah's Ark

Well, that's put me off from going. Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member} 15:04, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, I thought that was quite appropriate somehow.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 15:08, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I like how they advertise their "three new African Lions." As opposed to less-famous Welsh Lions, Gareth Edwards, Barry John and JPR Williams. --PsyGremlinSermā! 15:14, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

To be fair to them, at least they don't go for a 6000 year old Earth (tens of thousands) between the flood and the first cities in Mesopotamia. Also they go for creation and evolution; so they're only half bonkers. Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member} 15:14, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it's quite a closet creationist organisation. From what I understand of the place, once you're out there with the animals, it seems like it has its head firmly in reality and kids just love farm animals. When you go back to the centre itself, that's where the creationist exhibits are and they're not totally forced down peoples throats. ^bomination 15:32, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

As I put in the article and from scanning the site it looks like "gap theory". Gap theory allows you to have an earth as old as you like because you put millions or billions of years between the first two verses of Genesis. It also gives you two cataclysmic destructions. One which got rid of the dinosaurs millions of years ago (when Satan rebelled) and then a later one with Noah - so youv'e got more opportunities to form fossils. You can put your seven day creation event in after the first verse of Genesis if you like. So it's a lot more flexible format while apparently keeping firmly to a literal interpretation. All of this is left unsaid on their website though (as far as I can tell) - it just fits with all they do say.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 16:24, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

It seems more YEC than proper OEC, which accepts the geological age of 4.5 billion years. But yes, there seems to be plenty of gap theory in there. ^bomination 16:28, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

How old do they think the Earth is? I couldn't find their conclusion.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 16:32, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

The site doesn't say, but Wikipedia quotes the owner at 100,000. I think it's definitely a YEC organisation, just very cautious about being too overt about it because they'd likely scare off many of their visitors if they were as preachy as the creation museum. ^bomination 16:34, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I got the impression they they are being very coy about some things. Stealth creationism in fact.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 16:44, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Stealth creationism? Perhaps? ^bomination 17:02, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

As an article you mean? That thought occurred to me as well, but I'm not sure how many examples we'd find. In the US they don't really need to be stealthy - though while I think about it I suppose ID, Teach the controversy would be examples too.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 18:57, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, it's just a thought, I struggled to find examples as it's rare in the US. But the UK is more rife with stealthy creationist movements that worm their way into schools. Faith-schools especially do it by purposefully mis-teaching evolution. ^bomination 19:01, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

The menace

"the rise of creationism in the UK is also of concern" - Not really.

Traditionally (at least since the mid twentieth century), the vast majority of Christians in the UK have not been Creationist.

Christianity plays such a small part in British society, rightly or wrongly. I'm sure there's probably one or two of them in the House of Lords, but that's always been nut kingdom anyway. --Albannach (talk) 19:59, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Getting to be a problem in NI. I need to backport the stuff I added in last night's post - David Gerard (talk) 08:27, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Creationism is certainly a minority tenet in the UK but there are groups pushing for it in schools, particularly these new academies. Also there was a creationist slant imparted to the Giant's Causeway visitor centre in NI. There are also more vocal creationists like Nadine Dorries in the Commons. The problem is that many of the nutters keep quiet about their creationism so as not to upset the wider populace, but they are out there. Because religion is still part of the school curriculum young kids are exposed to the Bible and creationist philosophy well before they they are exposed to science and childhood indoctrination can have a lifelong efect, particularly if a non-scientific career path is chosen. Генгис^marauding 08:58, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

It's not going to get anywhere in the near future. Unlike the USA fundamentalists have no power and are something of a joke. Apart from NI, which is complicated, the Wee Free are the only other major haven for it. If there is a major issue in the UK, Islamic creationism is more a problem... for a variety of reasons.-Albannach (talk) 10:29, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that's being quite noisy, we need to cover that more here - David Gerard (talk) 13:39, 12 March 2013 (UTC)