Talk:Libertarianism

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Yep, class struggle. Class struggle, Carl![edit]

It seems that RW is really turning into not just a leftist, but a Marxist garbage dump. The whole article is extremely moralizing and is written with hatred for the market and freedom. Well, where, WHERE do the Marxists get the fucking theses that capitalism purposefully oppresses some groups? Answer one simple question: if the capitalists tear their asses for profit, how do they pay women less? Here or - or! Your "welfare" whine to libertarians ignores the simple fact that your morality is not the only option. Libertarians simply have a different morality. They have no goal of caring for the "general welfare". For them, the state PRINCIPALLY should do nothing but protect the freedoms of the citizen, because the intervention of the state WILL VIOLATE, BITCH, FREEDOM, you fucking assholes! To the question "what about the work, they pay little everywhere" answer me the question: who pays your salary? "A person still has no choice, because he needs to eat and work" - the SAME PEOPLE, like you, give work! The capitalists are not saurians from Nibiru, they came from the same people as everyone else! How many years have we been hearing whining about "monopolization", back in 1917 Lenin proclaimed that the "concentration of capital" has ended, it can be nationalized. Why is this "monopolization" still not completed? Here's what I want to say: I'm from a post-Soviet country. The USSR was a POOR country in which they wiped themselves with newspapers, and a man with rolls of toilet paper on the street aroused admiration and envy. Everything that Hoppe writes about DDR, I saw with my own eyes. And trust me, you don't want to go there. The Bolsheviks littered the entire middle zone of Eastern Europe with hogweed. The largest environmental disasters have occurred in communist countries. There was a cellulose plant, which no one needed for a long time, but they could not close it, because people would have to be fired, so it littered the entire ecology with waste! Yes, there are many pictures where during the Great Depression milk was poured into pits, but in GD NOT A SINGLE person died of starvation, and under Stalin 2 million people were starved to death! You probably really believe that Fox News morons are spreading conspiracy theories about beautiful communism. Yes, Fox News is morons. But look with your own eyes at any Marxist regime, and if you are honest with yourself, you will become anti-communist. Nothing leftish works and will never work. I said everything. — Unsigned, by: 188.187.129.41 / talk / contribs

Yes you 'said everything', including a meltdown in the middle, before barely regaining your composure. You apparently don't see the contradiction you concluded your rant with, which was to tell us all how terrible communism is, and conclude from that that, "Nothing leftish works". So because the extreme of something doesn't work, a moderate version can't. That's just extreme in itself, and not pragmatic. Who cares if libertarians have a different set of 'morals', as you claim, what matters is what happens when you implement boneheaded ideas, and libertarianism is one of the most boneheaded rigid ideologies imaginable. If you try to make libertarianism anything close to workable you have to make allowances for social infrastructure, which is antithetical to libertarianism, so it can't be done. Rational people are sick of having to wade through hoards of homeless people when they dare to venture out of their homes. Do you really think we're stupid enough to blame communists for all the shit we have to put up with in this ultra-capitalist society, where boneheaded libertarians who have the power to vote are hardly a rarity? Where billions of dollars is spent by billionaires to promote right-wing stupidity? If you libertarians had your way the already out of control homeless population would increase a hundredfold, and I'm already sick enough of tent shantytowns in every park in my city. Like I said, we don't care about your morals, your fantasies, or your auto-erotic methodologies. We don't even care about your stupidity until you demand the rules be tailored to suit your destructive naivety, which is why we call it out in articles like this one. If our western countries ever turn into 'communist' regimes, we'll deal with the problems those create if and when it ever happens. Right now we can't even keep up with the problems right-wingnuts perpetually foist on us. There are hundreds of Republicans elected to various levels of government who publicly iddentify as 'libertarian', whereas there is not a single successful politician calling himself a 'communist'. So what do you suppose is the greater threat? Here's an idea, why don't you try mustering some courage for a change, and join us, rather than doing all you can to signal your masters that you are the most diligent conformist you can be? FairDinkum (talk) 10:17, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Question[edit]

To what extent is libertarianism more likely to produce 'the tragedy of the commons' than other systems? Anna Livia (talk) 13:47, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

It depends of the level of libertarianism. If we're talking about Ayn Rand levels of libertarianism, I'd say the same as socialism. While I'm skeptical of the horseshoe theory, I think it works in some cases, this is one of them. Armen Alchain, perhaps the greatest microeconomist that didn't get the Nobel Memorial Prize wrote about how socialism leads to the tragedy of the commons too. GeeJayKWhere all evil dwells Where every lie is true 14:15, 18 January 2023 (UTC)



Adam Smith and economics in general[edit]

Adam Smith was not for "relatively" free markets but for free markets, period. Someone with a background in economics should go through this article, as it is really a mess in that respect. Also, libertarianism is for well defined property rights, which reduce the tragedy of commons. Many other misconceptions abound.... — Unsigned, by: 142.1.13.84 / talk / contribs

On talk pages, please sign your comments using four tildes (~~~~) or by clicking on the sign button: SigButt.png on the toolbar above the edit panel. You can also indent successive talk page comments using one more colon (:) for each line. Thank you. Carthage (talk) 22:03, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Technical question[edit]

Is there a special banner template that indicates a lack of sourcing for some sub-headings? If so, I think it would be appropriate to insert it atop the "View of Government" section. Thoughts? Elf (talk) 20:08, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

@Elf Yes, use Template:More_sources for sections you think require more sources. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 20:10, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
Thank you, @Cosmikdebris. Will do. Elf (talk) 20:14, 25 February 2025 (UTC)