Talk:Nationalist pseudohistory

What's the point of the Native American alternate history scenario?

Shouldn't the properties of the topic be fairly obvious from all the actual, real world examples in the article already? I mean, RW already has several separate articles on this kind of crap, so we hardly need to dream up hypothetical cases. ScepticWombat (talk) 07:10, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Well, nationalists reading the real examples might not see any problem with the logic. ("Well, yeah, Scythians are equated with Huns, therefore they're Huns. I don't see what this guy's going on about.") By using a hypothetical position that does not exist, the absurdity of the reasoning can be highlighted in a way that does not make use of examples that many find unproblematic.--Кřěĵ (ṫåɬк) 07:15, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Couldn't we just as well use the bizarre Aryan master race nonsense that has these Aryans pop up all over the world to do and invent anything worth of notice? ScepticWombat (talk) 07:53, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Those who believe in this stuff about Aryans will just look at it and think it's perfectly reasonable, because they already believe it and are incapable of seeing the problem with their logic. But if you want to add it in addition, then go ahead.--Кřěĵ (ṫåɬк) 07:57, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Sure, those who believe the Aryan nonsense will believe it (that's kind of an oxymoron), but the question is, will it illustrate the absurdity of these beliefs to the extent that you insist that the fictional example of American Indians does? I really don't see the pedagogic point in using hypothetical examples when real ones abound. The objections you gave (essentially that other Kool-Aid drinkers will not recognise them as the drivel they are) are equally applicable to the fictional Native American one. ScepticWombat (talk) 08:08, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Afrocentrism falls under this; it's a pan-nationalist pseudo-history though in the sense of the whole African continent.Schizophrenic (talk) 14:24, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

The Basques

There is certainly a lot of this in the basque country.

• Basque is the oldest language in europe
• The last survivors of the original europeans
• Europe's oldest parliament
• Basques have a unique blood group
• There is a lot of sillyness ascociated with the blood thing
• The English (and the american) people are descened from basques

And so on.

To be fair though, a lot of this stuff is invented separately by non-basque authors; but when this happens is readily incorporated by the Basque nationalists. (except for the reptilian blood stuff)--Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 12:38, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

That could work in a Basque nationalism or Basque pseudohistory article.--Кřěĵ (ṫåɬк) 13:04, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Basques somehow being a remnant (culturally, not genetically) of pre Indoeuropean Europe might be true, but is hard to prove either way. Frankly there are two possible explanations how Basque - a language seemingly unrelated to any other living or dead - came to be where it is now; either Basques migrated there at some point in time or they are a remnant of some culture since supplanted by another migration or acculturation. another Jewish conspiracy by (((Laurogeita Hamabost))) (talk) 14:53, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Laurogeita Hamabost, I am disappoint. Why do you hate Basques so much? You're a traitor to your people! Admit it, you're shilling for the Spaniards. Only an anti-Basque nationalist would dare suggest that Basques are anything other than the extraterrestrial galactic master race!--Кřěĵ (ṫåɬк) 05:37, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

There you have it. I am a race traitor - always have been - and proud of it. another Jewish conspiracy by (((Laurogeita Hamabost))) (talk) 16:57, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

I think that the whole Basque language thing is oversold. Prior to the Roman invasion there were numerous tribes living on the Iberian Peninsular. It is a fair bet that they would have spoken a large number of different languages. All these languages but one - Basque - were replaced by Latin.

If any one of those others had survived it would also now be the subject of a cult following and weird extraterrestrial theories. The fact is that some things just work out in one particular way - and it is human nature to then read significance into the coincidences of history.--Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 19:19, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

While it is true that we know little about pre-Roman Spain, we know the languages some of those groups likely spoke. One group was Celtic (like in neighboring Gaul) another Punic (like in Carthage) and there may have been others as well. However, it still raises the question how on earth a group with a language seemingly unrelated to either Celtic (to the East) Germanic (further to the East) or any other known language came to be there. If they migrated there at the same time as or later than the Indoeuropean groups, someone would have to explain how they left so little trace of it. If they were "always there" that is also remarkable. another Jewish conspiracy by (((Laurogeita Hamabost))) (talk) 19:32, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

You people have it all wrong. They obviously dropped down from UFOs millions of years ago. Think about it. The swastika (lauburu) is a Basque symbol. The swastika is shaped like a galaxy, so it must be a pictoral representation of a galaxy. The only way it could be shaped like a galaxy is if the ancient Basques had advanced spacecraft technology and knew what galaxies looked like. It's obvious.--Кřěĵ (ṫåɬк) 05:18, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

While I find the "Basque spacecraft technolgoy arguement" interesting, I am ultimately unconvinced.

Getting back to the Basque language thing. It's certainly a language isolate now; but that does not mean that no other, unwritten, associated languages existed in the past. We simply can never know.--Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 07:56, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Wow, that thing about rhesus negative blood is amazing: Basques are descended from aliens instead of monkeys?[1] I don't understand how they claim to have a parliament older than the Althing/Løgting/Tynwald/etc in a town founded in 1366, and nobody else seems to know they invented habeas corpus, but the blood stuff is something else. Annquin (talk) 15:00, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

To be fair to the basque nationalists, the more extreme "alien blood" stuff isn't part of their mythos. Though many of them do use the "blood argument" to suggest they are the only "pure race". But when pushed on what they mean by "pure" it gets a bit vague. The rest of it is pretty common though.--Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 20:15, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

It sounds like you've basically written the article. Just don't get pissed off Basques ready to kill everyone OK - David Gerard (talk) 10:08, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

In point of fact I live in the Basque country. And only a few years ago the more insane nationalists were killing (or persuading to leave the area) those who disagreed with them.

So, while I'm happy to make comments on this largely obscure talk page - I'm disinclined to be the lead author on an article on the subject.--Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 14:29, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

First of all, this entire website is basically taunting people to blow it up. Second, it's not Basques' fault everybody else is scum who has to be wiped off the face of the earth. Geez, your response is full of the FALLACIES and DISREGARD FOR REASON that has come to be associated with the PSEUDOSKEPTICS here at IRRationalwiki.--Кřěĵ (ṫåɬк) 07:46, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

It's a very well known fact that this website is run by hardcore Spaniard Basque-denialists. I am surprised you did not catch on earlier. another Jewish conspiracy by (((Laurogeita Hamabost))) (talk) 12:55, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Here is an amusing quote about Basque hypotheses.--Кřěĵ (ṫåɬк) 02:51, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Quora mention

This article has been mentioned positively in this Quora answer.--Кřěĵ (ṫåɬк) 05:23, 16 January 2018 (UTC)