Talk:The Bell Curve

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This Racialism related article has been awarded BRONZE status for quality. It's getting there, but could be better with improvement. See RationalWiki:Article rating for more information.


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Genetic prediction of intelligence[edit]

The page currently makes this statement:

In spite of the large volumes of scientific literature establishing heritability of intelligence, none of the many attempts to find a predictive genetic correlation to intelligence have found any, except those genes known to cause learning disabilities.

This is outdated. For example, on 19 July 2016 a result was published that predicts 3.5% of the variance in general cognitive ability:

Predicting educational achievement from DNA

(The main result of the paper is for educational achievement, where the result is stronger.) (talk) 10:11, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

I think this article seems clearly biased against the book. One argument that I think is not relevant seems to keep popping up: that the evidence or arguments presented in this book can be used to support racism, thus the evidence or arguments must be wrong. That is nonsense. Just because something in the book COULD be used to support racism or racist ideas doesn't make that particular bit of content wrong. — Unsigned, by: / talk / contribs

'The thing is'[edit]

There are many types of intelligence and 'innate abilities', at least some of which can be developed as such or in particular directions - and this includes 'being good at IQ tests.' To what extent will, for example, taxi drivers with The Knowledge, researchers, or writers of successful popular fiction necessarily have high 'conventionally measured IQs' (and to what extent will 'Mensa level IQ persons' be able to do the exampled work?).

And if people take IQ tests from different 'IQ-testing-cultures and contexts' do they fall on the same points on the different bell curves? (talk) 11:12, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

"Much of the research in The Bell Curve is not disputed..."[edit]

Umm... it really is though?

Nisbett, Richard E.; Aronson, Joshua; Blair, Clancy; Dickens, William; Flynn, James; Halpern, Diane F.; Turkheimer, Eric (2012). "Intelligence: new findings and theoretical developments" (PDF). American Psychologist. 67 (2): 130–159. doi:10.1037/a0026699. ISSN 0003-066X. PMID 22233090. Retrieved 22 July 2013.

Lay summary (22 July 2013): — Unsigned, by: MajorParts / talk / contribs

Opening the article with a quote from The Bell Curve[edit]

At present, the article opens with this quote:

The egalitarian ideal of contemporary political theory underestimates the importance of the differences that separate human beings. It has become objectionable to say that some people are superior to other people in any way that is relevant to life in society … Discrimination, once a useful word with a praiseworthy meaning, is now almost always used in a pejorative sense.
The Bell Curve

I suspect the intent is to contrast The Bell Curve's pseudo-intellectual contrarianism with the preceding quote ("Publishers, forget about carefully reasoned, nuanced discussions of the issues of the day") but it still reads to me like we're giving undue weight to both TBC's counterfactual ideas and its persecution complex.

Perhaps we could include some witty and clever snark in the attribution to indicate it's not a position supported by RW? Maybe something like "The Bell Curve, complaining that discrimination is no longer intellectually respectable and they're being persecuted merely for asking questions." (Other suggestions welcome, as I'm not very witty or clever.) Heywood (talk) 20:22, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Page for Charles Murray?[edit]

Is there any reason why there is no page for Charles Murray? His racism does not end with The Bell Curve - he's tweeted awful things, including an admission that he's donated money to Emil Kirkegaard and Bo Winegard. — Unsigned, by: Pinkerite / talk / contribs

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Charles Murray currently redirects to The Bell Curve, so it would be up to someone to create a page that is distinct enough from that one but still has relevant missional material about Murray. Bongolian (talk) 07:00, 25 July 2023 (UTC)