This discussion doesn't really belong at the moderation page

So I'm replying here. Hope that's okay with you.

Do you honestly think the de-CPifying campaign and remove-crap-from-funspace forum are made up of people who are actively working to remove fun from RW? Your definition of humor is a bit strange if that's the case. Take a look at Fun:Ten, a great, funny article we ruthlessly murdered. And I'm sorry a sizable amount of us don't see gratuitous Andy Schlafly bashing in random mainspace articles as an integral part of the site.

It's always been difficult to see what RW is supposed to be "about." It sure as hell isn't what the RWF put on the incorporation documents - it's much bigger and messier than that. I don't envision RW as a miniature Wikipedia; nobody does. RW will always have and need its joking, humorous aspects... but we will also always disagree on what's acceptable joking and what's worthwhile humor, because we are more than twenty members large. It shouldn't be news that people disagree on what is funny and what isn't, and on what's objectionable and what isn't.

That's just my opinion on this whole trend thing.

Gonna jump in here, SR. You know I disagree with Blue on many aspects of the "management" of the place, but clearly not the content. RW is not and should not be a joke. It's not and should not be a place for 14 year olds to pick on ONE SPECIFIC SITE. I'm all for keeping the CPspace, but not in main space. People who come here, like my friends from facebook, who i send her for fun, or to laugh at conservatives, or to learn how to argue evo, don't know or care about CP. they care about stuff like "christian fundies taking over', and certainly cp is one part of that. but it's not the entire thing...I would oppose anyone trying to remove CPspace, or the MainSpace articles on Andy. but the one line crap in otherwise good articles isn't nescessary or intersting.

Think bigger. think about who comes, who uses this space, who reads it. Unless you just want it to be petty whining about one single web page that is now so obscure no one even edits it.

As SR, for what it's worth, i'm totally against mods, and the way some people are playing out the anti/pro troll game. but i don't play in that space. I let those who care, fight it out and just basically edit the wiki.

but i edit it not for you, or for ace, or for nx or ADK or for Blue. I edit it for those guests who are trying to learn how to argue something. which is our single biggest strength and draw..

Oh, and about the "fun space" editing. if you cared, you would have read them, and commented. You didn't. I commented on many that i didn't think should be deleted, and as of yesterday none of them had been. (I suspect none of them have been today, either, but i've not looked yet.)

One thing that bugs me, when i listen to anyone whine, is "did you do anything about it", and "do you know what you are talking about". you did not read the articles, or at least some of them, you'd have said "ok, i agree, this is crap". But what you really wanted to do was jump on teh current mess-around-mess and say "me too, me too".

My view is that we ought to have humor, but that (1) humor is no excuse for keeping trash lying around, and (2) we should have a preference for "rational" humor, i.e., directed sarcasm and mockery.

None of your comments really address the problem of what RW is supposed to be about. It was founded as an alternative venue to CP, but now it wants to move away from that, what is it for? It's not as accurate as WP, it's not as funny as CP itself and it's not as satirical as, say, the Onion. Yes, a lot of FunSpace is shit and should be deleted, but the way in which the associated discussions have often called for the total removal of FunSpace speak volumes. Incidentally, I note that this article was somehow missed from the list. It's not particularly funny (and I wrote it so I can say that) but Nx missed it off his list. I wonder why?

WFG suggests I keep in mind those who come to the site. Well every time LArron does some stats, WIGO:CP and WIGO_T:CP win by a country mile. Whether you like it or not, this is a CP-related site and will remain so for the forseeable future.

The simple fact is that RW used to have a sense of humour and it seems to have lost it. Changing Maratrean's user page was funny. Changing his signature was funny. Changing Bricks' signature was funny. Are we talking humour at the Wildean level here? Of course not, but it's still funny. The huge overreaction by some people is what's really disappointing.

If you want people like Maratwat and Bricks then you've got 'em. All the reasons I started contributing here have gone, and I'm only really here for the trolling these days.

For the record, while SR is here for trolling that isn't the case from me. Fuckers like brx et al. hamstring us. You have that little penis telling Nutty he hasn't contributed enough like it fucking matters

Okay, I exaggerated a bit about only being here for the trolling. But Bricks is definitely a penis.

Because the list was generated from the category Mei created

Whatever you say.

Specifically Category:Things you should imagine Mei is pointing at. Don't believe me? Look at the edit comment here.

Right.

Changing Maratrean's user page was sorta kinda funny ONCE. It stopped being funny when the edit war started

Yes. A while ago it just became bullying.

Nx: please fuck off. I lost interest in anything you might have to say some time ago. AD: please fuck off. Comparing the editing of an adult's user page on a wiki to bullying is not even wrong.

OK, I'll just throw in my two cents about this whole mess here and then I'll shut up again. First, remember what we threw Marcus out for: engaging in nothing but trolling, all the time. For me, that's been the single bright spot in the last few months. You consistently argued and voted for banning him, so I guess you were as fed up with his antics as I was. Do you really want to engage in the same kind of behavior now? Seriously, you're better than this, or at least used to be. You're much funnier than I am, and I've seen you make excellent contributions outside of CP space as well.

Second, and whatever you may think about the appropriateness of trolling, there's no denying that it plainly isn't working. Maratrean is still here, and I've seen nothing that would suggest one more round of trolling would make him leave. But each and every time you vandalize his user page, signature or whatever, you're actually giving him a legitimate grievance to drone on about. It's totally obvious that he simply craves attention and doesn't care whether it's positive or negative. Then the whole crap metastasizes across half a dozen user pages, the coop and even the saloon bar, and the whole wiki gets hung up on drama again. Seeing RC drown in petty bitching for hours on end is enough to turn regulars off, imagine how someone who just discovered the place must feel like.

So please, stop this pointless crusade and just try to ignore the guy. I admit it's not easy; he's apparently one of our most prolific editors now, but that's all the more evidence that he's not about to leave because of the reaction he's receiving. But that's the only way to avoid yet more totally useless drama and collateral damage.

Actually I decided to stop poking Maratwat some time ago. This is more about the humourless tossers who seem to have taken over the site recently. Thanks for the nice comments though.

The simple fact is that RW used to have a sense of humour and it seems to have lost it. Changing Maratrean's user page was funny. Changing his signature was funny. Changing Bricks' signature was funny.

Those certainly had some childish humor associated with them the first time. When you folks started doing some of it repeatedly, it ceased to be funny.

This is setting aside of course, your assumption that you're the grand arbiter of humor here. I suspect that's why you turn around and call everyone who disagrees with your notion of what's funny "humorless tossers."

Most if not all of us do want to see Maratrean and Brxbrx go. As a matter of fact, I agree with Ace that they "hamstring" us and add little of value to the site. But when you have to reduce yourselves to Brxbrx's level, you start to lose whatever legitimate argument you may have been trying to make.

Not at all. If I was the only person who believed that things were getting less and less funny around here your argument would have merit, but I'm not so it doesn't.

As for doing it repeatedly, it depends exactly what you mean. Obviously the edit warring by me and Ace was necessary to make the point. There was a gap then we did it again. Doing it a third time would have been boring and I certainly had no intention of doing it - even before Nx's policy-breaking extension was added.

Judging from the emails I'm getting, my actions have quite a wide range of support. If that doesn't include you, sorry - and tough.

You sound a lot like MC, to be honest. I'm pretty sure he said something highly similar to "Judging from the emails I'm getting, my actions have quite a wide range of support" when he was defending his trolling.

Your efforts to get rid of Maratrean and Brxbrx are not misguided, but your methods are, in my opinion. I'm not going to defend them, but I'll not join your petty trolling crusade either.

Association fallacy.

I've just had someone offer me an 18-year old bottle of whiskey. If that's the reward for pettiness, I'll be petty all day long.

Hey, I was just pointing out something that you triggered in my memory. I was one of MC's defenders, I helped return him after his first lengthy ban. His crusade against "humorless tossers" isn't so different from yours, only he targeted higher-profile users. Anyway, it would be hypocritical for me to attack you for doing the same thing I supported MC for, I just realized. Meh. Carry on if you must.

I'm really curious, SR, cause maybe my sense of humor is lacking -- what "fun" has been removed OTHER THAN trolling someone's page. You imply that there is less fun here, so i'd love to see specific examples of actually funny things that have been removed.

Trolling, by the way, is not funny to me. It never has been, no matter who is trolling for what reason on what site. But clearly you and no one else get to define "fun" for all of us, hum?

And hereby begins the story of an assassin…

I thought policy was that a user's page is their castle and you're not allowed to edit it, much less vandalize it repeatedly. Silly me.

I really do not see where it's funny. Anymore than I see where it's funny to run fingers down the glasses of four-eyed kids in school. Or funny to intentionally leave your girlfriend chase after your car a few steps, as they do in "funny" movies, making her unsure if you are staying or going. Or why it's funny to leave the lid of the salt shaker slightly open at restaurants...

These things aren't funny, they are childish, they are abusive (the damage is very very slight, but the fact that you are targeting to annoy or harrass is still a level of abuse).

To me, funny is a good joke. Funny is Hugh Laurie. Funny is Peanuts.

Sad is trying to act 5 by trolling someone as if it mattered.

That's your opinion. It's not one shared by many other people.

And Nx, fuck off. I've told you before - I'm really not interested in listening to your whining any more. Isn't it about time you LANCB?

That's exactly right. It *is* my opinion. and it is shared by many here. Not all, not most. The point I think is this. You clam "fun" is going. your definition of fun is acting like a 8 year old boy brat. "look, i can pull your hair". good for you. but saying "most of the grown up world doesn't find that crap fun" is not ruining the "fun around here". it's saying "We think rational wiki has more to offer people than the 5 year old thrill of pulling the girl's pig tail and making her cry".

Sorry - I phrased that incorrectly. I meant it's an opinion with which many disagree. Yes there are several who agree with you, but I don't really give a fuck.

It's shared by those with a brain. That's enough for me.

But you too, right?

You are more predictable than a day-time sopa opera, SR.

If you had predicted my response, you wouldn't have left such a vapid comment in the first place.

"It has to be hell in your brain" - real comedy

"Have you ever considered trying to do something useful? Perhaps reading to the elderly?"

Are you going to troll me like you troll Maratrean to drive me away?

I doubt that'll be necessary. You run off crying with a distressing regularity, so I see no reason to give you a push.