User:Bicycle Wheel/RationalWikiWiki Treehouse archive 12

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Weird dream[edit]

I had a weird dream last night that most of the major players at RW got together in this half online, half real life setting (yes it makes no sense; it was a dream). Everyone was amazingly cool about it. I'm not even sure most of the people I encountered were real users or people I made up in the dream. Blue was convinced I was someone else and didn't much care for me at first, but even so she was cool about it. No idea why I'm telling you this, as there's basically nothing more irritating and boring than someone telling you their dream, but I'm purposefully keeping it brief for that reason. I woke up feeling sort of optimistic and happy. I think that's why I decided to share. Turpis 17:02, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

I've always found the idea of a RW-con simultaneously intriguing and horrifying. Tytalk 18:38, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
Beats my dream about drudging round Wal-mart with Karajou. Rennie McGreet 17:27, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
We'd need breathalyzers at the doors, definitely. RWCon would be a very interesting affair, to be sure. Liveware Problem 20:20, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
Indeed we would. Anyone with a blood alcohol level below .07 would have to sit outside with a tankard of gin until they reach the appropriate level. Turpis 22:05, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
I've been having that one since 2009. Armondikov 20:41, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

If I ever win mega millions (which will be difficult as I don't play) I'll fly every active RW user to a global meet-up for some real life interaction and booze. The only rule is that everyone makes some semblance of an effort to get along; I'm not dropping a few hundred thousand for a fistfight. Turpis 00:23, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

If this happens before I turn 21, please hold the meetup somewhere where the drinking age is less than that. I think Brussels would be nice, the drinking age is 16 (even HeidelbergKid can drink!) and we'd have the air of authoritarian paper-pushing bureaucracy about - which is, as we know, where I thrive. Queen Iceabella 00:46, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
We're looking at a scenario in which I have $100 million; I think I can furnish a venue which will serve underage kids. Turpis 00:58, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Hopefully not as a snack. Queen Iceabella 01:05, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
I owe several people drinks already. Tytalk 02:24, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

This reminds me, what ever happened to that field trip to the creation museum some folks were talking about a while back? Turpis 01:10, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

As far as I know, it is still on for Thanksgiving, I will be going, Dumpling maybe, ToP was going last time I checked. Tytalk 02:24, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Really? Wow. I thought the idea was probably stillborn. It's a bit of a trip, but put me down as a definite maybe/probably not. No matter how it turns out I'm sure it can't hold a candle to my dream last night, which is really too bad. Man, I should buy a Mega Millions ticket. Turpis 02:34, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


I hereby declare the next 2 hours to be our official simulated HCM in order to help relieve stress. At the conclusion of the simulated HCM, I will post here that it is over, and everyone will be expected to return to normal behavior. Disco forever 22:02, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh screw off, where are my fucking jackboots? Tytalk 22:03, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
What have you done!??!?1/1/!? Tobul Oltarolin 23:33, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
This is no HCM! Where are the 5,000 word walls of text arguments? Where are the fourteen simultaneous votes? Where are the three competing constitutional conventions? Queen Iceabella 23:56, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
That's an HCM, is it? Tobul Oltarolin 00:03, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, I suppose I shpuld get around to undoing all the renames. Tytalk 02:27, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

We don't need no stinking voting![edit]


  1. Tobul Oltarolin 00:03, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
  2. Voxhumana 02:38, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


  1. Voxhumana 02:38, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

The double negative in the proposition makes a vote either way ambiguous!

  1. Turpis 00:19, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
  2. Eliza Yudowsky 00:39, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
  3. Voxhumana 02:38, 7 July 2012 (UTC)



  1. Queen Iceabella 00:35, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
  2. Tytalk 02:23, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
  3. Voxhumana 02:38, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Simulated HCM update[edit]

I hereby declare an end to this year's simulated HCM. Our test was successful, and thanks to those who participated. Now let's all get back to our old usernames and such. Disco forever 03:49, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm on it. Tytalk 03:50, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Indeed. My original username was Armondikov. Please rename me accordingly. Queen Iceabella 03:50, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
I believe that is all. And no it was not :P I wrote them down! Tytalk 03:59, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. --Brxbrx 04:01, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Mine was Robert ');DROP TABLES Students;-- ? Turpis 04:05, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
-_- uh huh. Tytalk 04:06, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Hey, can I have block rights? I won't use them except to unblock myself and to block spambots--Brxbrx 04:08, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
-.- <- see this face? That's my face right now. Armondikov 14:39, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
? Tytalk 15:49, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

What we need to do[edit]

After this simulated HCM, we need to set up a simulated arbitrary system to prevent further simulated outbreaks. I recommend a huge debate about choosing a simulated body of users who could defuse similar simulated disruptions. Rennie McGreet 17:46, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

We should vote on whether to have that debate. Armondikov 19:14, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
(EC) Okay, I'm coming out. I admit it. I have a certain proclivity toward creating bureaucracy because I really like titles.
In that vein, for the Simulated Moderation Body (SMB), I propose that we each give ourselves long and ridiculously grandiose titles that imply a great deal of authority. Me, I'll go for The Right Honorable Liveware Problem, High Commissioner for Voting and Elections, Special Arbitrator for WIGO-Related Disputes, Director of the Renaming Authority, Justice of the Peace, Warden of the North, Breaker of Shackles and Mother of Dragons. Liveware Problem 19:16, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Can I join. I'll accept the simple title of overlord extraordinaire. --Mikal 19:40, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
I have buttons if any of you like. Tytalk 20:43, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral, Archbishop of RationalWiki (and Chief Rabbi), and Lord Mayor. Armondikov 00:40, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
It is done. Tytalk 00:42, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
Merely Supreme Overlord Extraordinaire will do for me. --Mikal 03:54, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
Expedition Leader if you please... Tobul Oltarolin 09:07, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Might I request "Voxhumana, Chairperson of the Steering Committee for the Compliance Assessment of the Mission-Critical Objectives for the Key Operational Requirements Establishment Phase of the Rational Wiki Quality Assurance Process Review (preliminary)". Voxhumana 02:37, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

We're out of baked beans. Liveware Problem 02:47, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I need more tea. Tytalk 02:47, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to report that the chocolate rations seem to have decreased unlike what was promised. --Mikal, Merely Supreme Overlord Extraordinaire 02:50, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Fie on those who say we're a cabal of serious-business aspie fascists. Fie! The Right Honorable Liveware Problem, High Commissioner for Voting and Elections, Special Arbitrator for WIGO-Related Disputes, Director of the Renaming Authority, Justice of the Peace, Warden of the North, Breaker of Shackles and Mother of Dragons 02:53, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

That never ceases to crack me up. Tytalk 02:57, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Argmentum ad SusanG[edit]

Anyone else spotted this particular trope? Armondikov, First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral, Archbishop of RationalWiki (and Chief Rabbi), and Lord Mayor 10:30, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

You mean WWSD? Oh, yes, it's super loaded because (a)it appeals to higher authority. How dare anyone question the good name of SusanG. (b)It implies longevity. Only those who have survived from RW1.0 knew the true SusanG.
Whilst, quite frankly, from what (very) little I knew of her, she would be concerned at the endless HCM serious discussion over STV, she would also have hated being used in this way. 11:56, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm personally more concerned about argumentum ad brx (yes, it's related). I think an article on RationalWiki fallacies is in order!--Brxbrx 12:50, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
'argumentum ad brx' - not until you're dead. It's really not all about you. 12:57, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
You misunderstand.--Brxbrx 12:58, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
Susan was pretty clear on her positions. It's hardly a meme when you're attacking one person for bringing it up under reasonable circumstances. Nutty Roux 04:44, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

RationalWiki is down again.[edit]

Q_Q Tytalk 01:59, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Good to know that it's not just me, I suppose. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 02:11, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Hmmm, that's weird it's running just fine here in Australia. Voxhumana 02:49, 12 July 2012 (UTC) OK, so maybe it isn't.
DFEOJM says it's down. Times out from here in BR. Tytalk 02:55, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
All of those new articles must have broken the wiki. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 02:57, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, it's been down for over an hour now. Last I saw someone was installing LQT - that whathisname who wanted to play some game on his userpage. So is RWW on a different server then? Voxhumana 03:01, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
And it's back... and yes RWW is on a different server. Tytalk 03:04, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
(EC) I think it's on trent's co-op server, isn't it? The actual last thing to happen was brx blocking Nebs, so blame him. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 03:06, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Not this again... Will there be a ban vote? Maybe UHM can "confess" once more to spare me the rod--Brxbrx 03:33, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Yep. Tytalk 21:28, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh well. We'll just have to find some other avenue to shout at each other through. Armondikov, First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral, Archbishop of RationalWiki (and Chief Rabbi), and Lord Mayor 21:37, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
Damn. Archlich Tyrannis, Duke of Vandere 15:45, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
It was down for like, less than 30 seconds--Brxbrx 16:10, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Can we ban "RW is down" threads? Rennie McGreet 20:40, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Please. Go whine on a blog or something. Mbwun 00:41, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes. Rennie McGreet 08:42, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

I can't even tell whats going on anymore[edit]

Our new naming scheme has made RC utterly unreadable. congratulations! --Supreme Overlord Mikal 04:36, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

As soon as I finish mining out their rooms they'll settle down. This lava is giving me trouble though. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 04:39, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Renaming crap[edit]

Here's the deal, I don't mind all these crazy renamings and shit, but for those with the power to rename users: FOR THE LOVE OF GOAT, PLEASE EITHER MAKE YOURSELF A BOT WHEN YOU RENAME SOMEONE, OR FIND SOMEONE WHO CAN MAKE YOU A BOT WHEN YOU RENAME SOMEONE!!!!!! This has been a public service announcement brought to you by offices of McPunkerson, Goonie, and McDrunkerson. Thank you. Punky McPunkerson 09:16, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Or just maybe think about not doing it. Weaselicious Bite Me 18:48, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I miss all the fun things. Mbwun 00:40, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Dumb Question[edit]

What's the name for when somebody intentionally creates an account that looks exactly the same as another account? Bootmii 16:36, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the triple post. Bootmii 16:37, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
A copycat. Chris 16:38, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Grinding halt[edit]

"Server load: Very high (31.64)!" What did Trent do? O_o Or it wasn't Trent?--Burzum 19:35, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

It's been timing out for a while. -_- Beats me, are we being slashdotted reddit/twitter bombed again? Passiveaggressive 19:39, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Osaka here. All I can find is Wesley J. Smith from the 'Toot calling our take on human exeptionalism "irrational." Drink!
The individual responsible for spamming it everywhere? A Caribou Barbie fan. 03:05, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Running as slow as shit, some pages won't load. what's the deal? (TofP) 16:42, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
"Some pages"? The Main Page either doesn't load, or loads a default MediaWiki page without the custom CSS or any of the images. Someone was wondering what the "Community Portal" was on its talk page, but this is pretty much everything I managed to load.--Burzum 16:54, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
^What Burzum said. Site is as slow as molasses in the arctic. Passiveaggressive 16:56, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Man, you still haven't gotten over the last time I took you camping. It was supposed to be a popsicle, for crying out loud. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 18:58, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
But having to break the glass off was a bit much. Passiveaggressive 19:28, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Unblock me[edit]

Could someone unblock me at RW? I'm not sure why I can't other than it has something to do with the upgrade. I have to comment on this Rob silliness. Thanks. Sterile 20:57, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Op, never mind. Did it differently. Sterile 20:58, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Why cox sucks[edit]

I am getting 500 internal server errors paying my fucking bill. Passiveaggressive 22:35, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

You walk right into puns, Coxsucker. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 23:59, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
Snicker. Passiveaggressive 00:56, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Proxima's everlasting journey to humiliate herself[edit]

Proxima Centauri's pursuit of WaitingforGodot's blood has always been unwise, but she's starting to cross over into Brxbrx levels of adamant idiocy. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 16:34, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Lynx? RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 20:01, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm guessing here Passiveaggressive 20:43, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
Try here. Weaselicious Bite Me 23:12, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
That works much better. Passiveaggressive 00:13, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Now now, don't be so mean to Proxima. She's what we in America call "special." Punky McPunkerson 12:00, 9 August 2012 (UTC)


Can someone watch over his posts, please? 02:02, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Why, exactly? Punky McPunkerson 04:32, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, they can be a bit of an idiot (case 1, case 2, case 3), but a cursory look at their mainspace edits doesn't show anything remarkably awful. His objectionable edits appear to be fixed or challenged soon after they're made, so it's not like they're quietly stinking up articles. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 05:55, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

And he just started a coop. 00:11, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Internet Riot at RW right now[edit]

Anyone around here who can do something? --Revolverman 03:26, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

I'd update the HCM meter but this doesn't really count. Aside from that... Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 03:34, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
I meant more anyone hanging out here with the power at RW to stop this crap. --Revolverman 03:48, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
Which worked. Passiveaggressive 04:08, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the save Ty. --Revolverman 04:25, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Where's my rank, you bastards??[edit]

I also want to see the Lord Chief Justice's birth certificate. Psygremlin 10:15, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

eh? Passiveaggressive 15:16, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

The Tisane affair.[edit]

Do we need an article on it? RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 02:49, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Probably. --Supreme Overlord Mikal 03:11, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
let's wait for whatever conclusion first. Passiveaggressive 03:19, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
God forbid it ends with him not being banned, not for what he says, but for the HCM that will probably come out of it. --Supreme Overlord Mikal 03:22, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Would still need another 14 votes, all for ban, for that to happen. Passiveaggressive 03:24, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Oh joy. --Supreme Overlord Mikal 03:29, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Down to six. And yes, we definately need an article. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 04:21, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Correction, you need to polish and update the article23.16.216.193 04:28, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
have a cookie. Passiveaggressive 04:29, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

So, are people going to accept the cutting short of the voting? Although I personally voted against banning, it was a tough call and I can understand the thinking of those who supported it. It was probably good to bring the issue to a head so things can move on. As to Tisane, well, I do really hope he finds the help he needs. ZackMartin 12:14, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Given that AD of all people was the one that proposed it, the only people who could possibly oppose it would be the ones not worth listening to. ArmondikovFirst Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral, Archbishop of RationalWiki (and Chief Rabbi), and Lord Mayor 12:44, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
I'd imagine we'll lose a couple editors over this incident, banning of Tisane or not. I am fine with AD cutting off the voting pending moderator discussion, it was turning into a shitstorm and would have lost even more editors. Speakerface 21:08, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
ToP and Cracker left. ToP leaving like a world-class Drama Queen. -- 21:59, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Psygremlin too. 03:11, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

And nutty. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 07:44, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
At least two of the yea votes did not have franchise. Not that that matters when there's a lynching to be done. Julius Marx 08:21, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Unusable again[edit]

DDOS? Or another traffic spike? RW has been linked in the comments of posts on Baloon Juice and Pharyngula.--Burzum 16:53, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Slow for me. Probably a spike. Passiveaggressive 17:12, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
I've not had any problems accessing RW. Punky McPunkerson 17:26, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Flawless for me23.16.216.193 17:49, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Being iffy for me right now... :S ArmondikovFirst Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral, Archbishop of RationalWiki (and Chief Rabbi), and Lord Mayor 20:52, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Same here. --Seth Peck 20:57, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Cannot access. Passiveaggressive 21:03, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

The site loads pages for me, but only painfully slowly. Anyone else having issues? Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 22:17, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

This is cropping up again. Loading, but the custom links on the MW sidebar and the CSS is down. Seems like a server-side crash that's being slow to fully recover. ArmondikovFirst Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral, Archbishop of RationalWiki (and Chief Rabbi), and Lord Mayor 23:13, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Tisane/Abd's fate here[edit]

OK folks, here's the community's chance to weigh in on what we do with Leucosticte and Abd. I have them blocked for the time being (mostly because they are a leading cause of headaches for me), but would like the input of the folks here on whether or not you all think they should be blocked or not given that neither of them has really done anything beyond trolling this place to boredom. Punky McPunkerson 08:35, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

My opinion is that we are not obligated to slavishly emulate RationalWiki's policies. If a person is a source of headaches, we show them the door. This is a tiny, tiny site with a very small population of active users. Fretting about "rights" is pointless when it's trivially easy for a single user dominate the site, pouring out paragraphs of crap on our pages, for hours on end. Adb is an excessively verbose shill who brings nothing to this site. Block him. Leucosticte is, depending on who you ask, either a creep who's violated a valued user's copyright, or a masterful provocateur. Either way, he has an entire wiki of his own that he can fuck off to if being on a wiki is so important to him. Block him. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 09:10, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
What Hans said. Tytalk 12:38, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Yup. RationalwikiwikiUndergroundResistor 13:45, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
The revolution cannot come without some liberty being taken away, so ban the fuckers. --Supreme Overlord Mikal 14:07, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
That's fine. I'm mostly concerned about dissent over my decision. If there are any dissenters (minus Leucotastic and Abd, whom we've already heard from), I would like to hear from them so that, 2 months from now, nobody creeps out from hiding to bitch about them being banned. So, if nobody comes out to dissent on this decision, they have 72 hours to do so. After that, they will be SOL. Punky McPunkerson 23:46, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
I'm fine with that, though I don't know about the 'preventing talkpage editing' thing - at least so long as we want to continue trying to persuade Tisane to drop the logo and site name. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 07:27, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
Dissent? People who would dissent over that don't give a shit, so should be ignored. And preferably shown the iron fist for their dissent. ArmondikovFirst Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral, Archbishop of RationalWiki (and Chief Rabbi), and Lord Mayor 19:27, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
RWWW is not a site decitated to free speech, changing RW or anything deep or political. It's for commenting on RW. People can come and have their say, but to use the site as a second battlefield after being kicked off RW isn't really RWWW's mission. I realise it's not always easy to distinguish the two but the more obvious abuses of RWW's content hosting ought to be curtailed. If you want to kvetch your butthurt beyond simply having a right of reply, start a blog. Sophie 09:40, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Let's just say that, if someone wishes to troll RWWW into the ground like we all did to McWIki back in the day, I won't shed a tear. Punky McPunkerson 11:26, 24 September 2012 (UTC)


I think it would be good to have an article on RW's interaction with Dynamiclear. It's not often that a company does the right thing after being criticised on RW, in fact I don't recall it happening before. What say you? Sophie 09:46, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea, to be honest. But what to call it...... Hmmmmm. Punky McPunkerson 11:43, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
How about the "Dynamiclear Dilemma"? Punky McPunkerson 11:23, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

pissed as[edit]

anyone fany a pint? Rennie McGreet 21:18, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

fancy, not fanny lol

Gimme till I get home. Tytalk 21:53, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

OK, RationalWiki. You win..... For now[edit]

In the face of the local Catholic archdiocese advocating strongly in favor of the Minnesota anti-marriage amendment (all the while, Archbishop Nienstadt was one of the people most responsible for covering-up the sexual abuse of children), the attack on the US embassy in Libya, my battle against local religious nut Bradlee Dean, and the assault on the Sikh temple, I have finally conceeded that the RationalWiki community as a point in their mainstream anti-theistic views that the power of religion is itself determental to the cause of humanity. How many "good" Christians have I known over the years who believe that being a Muslim or a Pagan should be punishable by death? Countless. How many more time do I wish to go to a family reunion and avoid talking to my uncle (a higher-ranking Catholic priest) just to avoid telling him exactly how wrong it is for the Catholic Church to believe in bullshit like denial in the effectiveness of contraceptives just because abstinent men are jealous of those who can have sex? How many more Neopagan gatherings must I attend that include advocacy of New Age medicine that I know doesn't work (from candle-earring to Reiki)? And for what? That, ladies and gentlement, is the even greater mystery. I'm a person who has always been strongly opinionated and who has never been afraid to rip apart the illogical for the sake of the truth and logic. Yet I find myself more and more at odds with those who defend "the faith" (whatever faith that may be) based on illogic because "you either believe it whole-heartedly or else you can fuck off and get out!" Fuck that. Part of having an advanced brain such as humans do is so that we can use ti to pick apart nonsense for the sake of advancement. So, let this be my announcement that, at least for now and probably indefinitely, RationalWiki has successfully converted me to a strongly atheistic stance. Punky McPunkerson 08:40, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

We grill babies every other Thursday. See you there. Tytalk 14:00, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Ear candling doesn't work? I thought it sucked the Bad Brains out. Damn! Now what will I do?
  • Punishable by death? How can what is inevitable be a punishment?
  • A screaming mob demands you accept proposition X, which they obviously do not understand. Therefore X is false?
  • Color me confused. --AbdLomax 14:44, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Email setup[edit]

I have an email address set up with my account. I've checked, it's really my address, which works for RW and all other wikis. However, it's useless here, because I get no confirmation mail, and I've tried several times. Any ideas? --AbdLomax 17:12, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Looking into it now. You should get an e-mail, no idea why you didn't.... Punky McPunkerson 19:19, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
I tried again today, no mail showed up. I moved the mail from [myname] to another mail host. It worked. The problem is only showing up for a yahoo account, your end or theirs. The confirmation mails, however, had not shown up in the yahoo spam directory, so it's likely yahoo never received it. My personal issue is resolved, then, I can leave it this way, but the general problem stands. Can't use a yahoomail account.
I am now able to shut down watchlist notification in a huff. This feels much better. I wasn't even getting it! --AbdLomax 04:00, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
You might be the only person who actually uses their watchlist on this site - huff away. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 04:02, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Hammered by the debate again?[edit]

RW is again slow and the server status widget at the technical blog doesn't even load. I guess a lot of people felt the urge to look up the Gish Gallop?--Burzum 18:45, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

I can't even get it to load. DG's status light is busys. Tytalk 18:47, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
It's down again. Over at Tech Support DG said it wasn't because of high traffic. And I was so looking forward to tearing up that fanboy article on Marylin Manson--Brxbrx 22:23, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
And it's back, just as I wrote that. Apparently, my edit was the last one for a while--Brxbrx 22:24, 17 October 2012 (UTC)


It's started. I can hear them coming. Tytalk 23:14, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Lock the door and pretend you aren't home. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 23:48, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
You can here them coming to their door to give you candy? :P Nembus 00:20, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
I can hear the black helicopters descending. Tinfoil hat, don't fail me now. Weaselicious Bite Me 00:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Blow this place up, you say[edit]

I could hand out explosives for everyone to have a hand in demolishing this site. Unfortunately, the ATF raided my place the other day and confiscated all my C-4 in the process. Punky McPunkerson 08:12, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

We can work something out. Got any fertiliser? Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 08:22, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
I've got fertilizer, but a work injury has me on lift restriction so I can't lift the bags. Punky McPunkerson 08:32, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
I've got enough heavy water here to take out a major city, if I can just get this damn catalyst to work. Maybe it's a good thing that cold fusion is so unreliable. We ran this experiment for several weeks and all I've seen is one lousy neutron track. It's pretty, though. --AbdLomax 23:16, 7 November 2012 (UTC)


"Give it to me," she said.
"Hold on," I told her.
"Give it to me now!!! I'm so fucking wet, I need it!" she yelled.
Little did she know, I was not about to hand over the umbrella I was using for the rain.

Punky McPunkerson 08:49, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

"Once Upon a Time, there was a magical place where it never Rained. The End." --Supreme Overlord Mikal 15:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Post-election commentary[edit]

It's been 7 long months of working what has become my second job: canvassing and phone banking for Minnesotans United for All Families. Fuck< I worked at my regular job for 48 hours last week, and I spent just as much time volunteering to defeat the anti-marriage amendment here. But now, my voice shot and my body worn out from all the time spent fighting the forces of religious dogma, and the work pays off: the first time ever that an anti-gay marriage amendment has failed at the ballot box. Now I can move on to other things, like my music or, even, RationalWiki again! Punky McPunkerson 13:22, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

So how did the dance party go? Tytalk 16:12, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Question! Why in blazes is everyone saying that Minnesota is the first state to defeat an anti-gay-marriage amendment? Is six years really such a long time that no one remembers what was going on? Mjollnir.svgListenerXTalkerX 18:19, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Everyone got really drunk towards the end of Bush's presidency so they wouldn't have to remember the first eight years of the 2000s. Nembus 22:35, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Happy new year![edit]

yeah I got 12 minutes I don't care. Tytalk 05:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Right now, it was 51 minutes ago for me. Spent the evening with family. Drank sparkling cider, since I can't stand champagne. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 08:52, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
Spent night on gchat with Kristi. Drank 1/3 of a bottle of spiked eggnog. Ate chicken tenders. I also hate champagne. I wish I had gotton cider, I love cider :/ Tytalk 14:31, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
Spent night at a very kick ass and very secret rave in an abandoned factory downtown. Drank, at least, 3 entire bottles of champagne, but didn't even get a buzz. Got home around 6:00 a.m and had a few shots of Jack Daniel's before passing out on the couch. Punky McPunkerson 13:42, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
Think of your liver. Cherish it. Love it. Don't kill it. Tytalk 14:47, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Re-opening soon???[edit]

In the coming 2 months or so, as I find myself with much more free time with work dying down a bit, I'm gonna come up with and implement a plan to re-tool this place and re-open it. If anybody has feedback about the future that they'd me to know about, now is your chance to voice it. Punky McPunkerson 11:41, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Alright. We need some either some coherent policies, or to openly state we're a "morally bankrupt band of corrupt oligrach aspie facists" or something. Tytalk 15:35, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
  1. Start with a clean wiki
  2. Write a few articles that you think fit with your glorious vision
  3. Write some rules to formalise this vision
  4. Port over any articles that fit from this iteration
  5. More rules
  6. Open new wiki to public
  7. Profit
That's how I would do it, anyway. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 21:30, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
I think RationalWikiWiki would work best if it was written as a guide for new or prospective RationalWiki users. In that vein, there should be three main articles:
  1. "Who's Who on RationalWiki," with brief paragraph-long descriptions of what you can expect when interacting with most of the major players on RationalWiki. To minimize controversy, it should describe the various bad-people-who-are-still-popular as neutrally as possible, balancing criticism of their worst aspects with praise for the better sides. Also, lock it to prevent editing by all but a tiny handful.
  2. A "What to Expect" article, describing what you can expect to happen during deletion, long-term blocking, guideline discussions, etc. processes, citing examples and case studies where relevant.
  3. A "Brief History of RationalWiki" article, summarizing the defining cultural events and developments of RW's first 5 years of history.
I do agree with Tobul that everything else (save maybe the TK article), should be purged to give RWW the clean slate it so badly needs.
Also, no WIGO. This site never had the manpower or will needed to maintain a daily update of activity on RW, which is really the only conceivable use for a WIGO about RationalWiki: to inform RWians who've been gone a little while what's going on. And even more than the editor articles, when our WIGO was even mildly critical of the actions of RWians it became a lightning rod for complaints and controversy. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 07:10, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
This is, essentially, a proposal to turn RWW into a set of pages that would fit right in RW's help and project namespaces, unless I am misunderstanding you completely. There would be no real purpose to having RWW as a separate entity from RW in that case—the only reason RWW should be separate from RW is if it delivers a substantially different type of content from RW and if it is free to be critical of RW. Liveware Problem 20:23, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, you would need more than those three to make it worthwile. I think articles on events, like "The Great Deconservapediafication," are worthwhile—in that case the controversy managed to be confined to the event itself, rather than the reporting thereof. Perhaps we should do more to encourage difflink citations, to minimise the number of controversial claims? Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 22:13, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
I'll also say that I strongly support keeping WIGO. Even though we don't want a daily update on the goings-on of RW (and couldn't do it if we tried), we can still report on more noteworthy events, for example, the discovery of Proxima's attempt to fork RW, the mod and Board elections, mods becoming unhinged, etc. Liveware Problem 22:38, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
^ and ^^ No matter what we do there will always be someone unhappy. Tytalk 22:55, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
What about a WIGO with less emphasis on voting (no voting at all?) and thus fewer upvote-hungry one liners? Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 23:51, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
I have always seen wigo voting as one of the most pointless things one can do. We don't use WIGObot for archibing, why do we need it? Tytalk 00:13, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
Well, if you use that background gadget from over at rw, it makes the page look pretty. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 00:54, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
I do lean towards minimalism in many things, so admittedly three is probably too few. But I will continue to maintain that we have neither the staff, the willpower, or the attention span to adequately maintain anything north of a few dozen articles. Also, how neutral-versus-critical I envision our articles changes depending on my mood. Tomorrow I will probably find something new to dislike Rpeh and Ace for, and wish more than anything to rip them a apart. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 05:32, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I don't think we should completely eliminate our critiques of RationalWiki. What needs to happen, however, is we need to draw a line somewhere. I think articles about things like abuses of block policy written from a less personal perspective are generally useful. But we need to try to shy the focus here away from the more personal things like Brxbrx bitching about Ace so that Ace comes here, reads what Brxbrx says, and then bitches about Brxbrx and trolls the site. How we draw such a line, of course, is so uncertain that I'm not sure it's possible. Punky McPunkerson 12:55, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
Drawing the line is hard. We do have people on RW who enjoy dishing out boatloads of abuse but have astonishingly thin skin. As well as an extremely close knit friendship with similar people. Tytalk 15:04, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

I will also add[edit]

That I will be holding a number of skype conferences in the coming months to discuss the future plans for RWW. Anybody who wants in, drop me a line and I will let you know in advance when they're going to happen and what my skype information is. Punky McPunkerson 14:00, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

I have little to do tonight, and practically nothing every evening from Tuesday to Sunday this week. Tytalk 15:05, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I am very, very aware of that. Punky McPunkerson 13:01, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
d: Tytalk 13:48, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Idea for a topic in the New Epoch[edit]

A set of pages of great quotes by RW users - maybe one "serious", one "humorous", etc. Liveware Problem 22:28, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

I like that but would it fly? Tytalk 22:35, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
What do you mean exactly? Liveware Problem 22:53, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
What some people consider humorous others consider offensive, i.e. snark is a wall to hide behind while lamblasting. Tytalk 22:55, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Are you talking about comments like the one that started the Great Pissing Contest? Liveware Problem 23:01, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
That could be an example. Tytalk 23:37, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Fuck it. I see no reason not to. If people don't like us quoting them, then too bad. Punky McPunkerson 07:36, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
Alrighty. Tytalk 15:06, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Speaking of the New Epoch[edit]

Are we embargoing new content until the glorious reopening? Or can we start making new articles now? Liveware Problem 01:15, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

We already have, haven't we? Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 01:18, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
Have at. If not, we can always delete them :P. Tytalk 01:19, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

You heard it here first![edit]

(Unless you're Hans or Ty, whom I've already told.)

The 2013 Board of Trustees will only feature one new face. Otherwise, four of the five incumbents will win reelection. The new Board will be as follows:

  1. Nutty Roux
  2. Stabby the Misanthrope
  3. Reckless Noise Symphony
  4. WaitingforGodot
  5. Human

There was a lot of probability estimation and mathematical modeling (no, really) that went into this prediction. We analyzed all registered voters and these five are the single most likely combination by far. Thoughts? Liveware Problem 07:04, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

I seem to have a suspicion that Human will be replaced by Sterile. I don't know why, but I suspect he will. Punky McPunkerson 08:53, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
I thought so too. How did you deal with the dozens of unkowns on the list of registered voters? Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 21:28, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Well, as I told Stabby, there are two ways of looking at the unknowns. We can try to use Bayesian priors and basically assume the probability distribution mirrors the one that applies to the known voters. Or we can assume there's an unpredictable factor that accounts for their unknownness that makes it possible that they'll upset the rest of the voters. I lean toward the first option. Liveware Problem 07:33, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Board results[edit]

Yeah, I initially thought for a second, "WTF? Damo/Sterile/Blue/Tyrannis/Stabby?" But then I realize that those were just all the non-current Board members.

Anyway, I hereby dedicate this section to the inevitable griping when the results are announced tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. Liveware Problem 05:37, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

A Blue-Stabby-Ty Board triad would be... interesting. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 08:06, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Hopefully, Human wins re-election. I don't want to be chairman anymore. Punky McPunkerson 08:09, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Interesting is quite an understatement there, especially if combined with Damo & Sterile. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 08:50, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Interesting is definitely an understatement. I'd describe it more like this. Liveware Problem 10:52, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Not quite absolute power. Keep in mind that Tmtoulouse gets a vote, so the Board would end up in a perpetual 3-3 deadlock between reformers and the status quotidians. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 18:56, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
He only gets a vote if the Board vote to give him a vote, actually. Liveware Problem 19:37, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
But can you get him to do his job without giving him said vote? Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 20:14, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Indeed. The Operations Manager position (2 year term) is distinct from the Community Founder position (1 year term). Liveware Problem 20:18, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
You know what RWW needs to make? A cliffs notes on how the board and foundation actually work. Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 20:40, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
A question though - if Trent resigned from either postion, who would take his place? Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 22:03, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
If that were to happen, the easiest way to handle it would be to make the Chairman the Executive Director. It's not especially uncommon in corporations for the Chairman/CEO to be the same person. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 23:29, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Which brings us to the next point (and some insider information here): Trent is planning to step down from his Board role. Punky McPunkerson 08:47, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
But he would stay on as Ops Manager, right? Liveware Problem 11:23, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
Yes, but that would mean he's mostly in charge of day-to-day operations (technical work, for example) and would work underneath the upcoming COO post, which would be a part of the larger goal of changing some of the roles within the Foundation itself. More on this to come after the new Board convenes. Punky McPunkerson 09:14, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
Do you have anyone in mind for the COO yet? Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 20:40, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

According to the dates (before Trent blanked it) the election ended a few minutes ago. According to an email Trent sent me, the votes will be counted Wednesday or Thursday. Sigh. Tytalk 05:23, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

The suspense is literally killing me. It is wrapped around my neck like the corpse of a great albatross. I am slowly losing circulation in my head. My vision is fading, my brain deoxygenating. Send help. Sen h p Liveware Problem 06:38, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
Try slowly flexing your diaphragm. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 07:41, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
How long do we have to wait? Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 21:26, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
Apparently indefinitely. I've no idea what the hell is happening. Maybe Punky does? Liveware Problem 07:42, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Trent is waiting for the victors of the election to send him back an e-mail of acceptance. Apparently, the original one was slightly confusing (it caused me to send out a congratulatory e-mail instead of an acceptance e-mail), so he sent out another. 3 people have yet to return either acceptance e-mail, and the Board (prior to the elections) didn't want to announce winners until everyone had accepted so that we didn't have somebody elected who immediately resigns. Bluntly put, that is the hold up. Punky McPunkerson 09:42, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Maybe people aren't checking their email because they're waiting for the results on-wiki? Seems odd that three people aren't responding to such a (purportedly) important message. Liveware Problem 10:05, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Trent made my heart race when I saw he edited the election page. But the thing was not done. Liveware Problem 17:52, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Are you really that worried about resignations? Tobul Oltarolin, Expedition Leader 19:35, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
I didn't win. Liveware, rerun your calculations! Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 19:44, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Did not win. Not suprised. Tytalk 20:01, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
The fuck did I do to deserve re-election? Punky McPunkerson 18:52, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Status quo is god, not be a fascist, deplorable excess of sanity, be incredibly popular? Tytalk 19:01, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

David Gerard[edit]

Is an awesome, awesome man. That is all. Punky McPunkerson 10:12, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Well, we already knew that. What powerful magicks has he worked for RW this time? Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 19:28, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
It's David Gerard the editor, this time. And his agreement to help coordinate with me to go after NaturalNews' Mike Adams. I'm systemically targeting NaturalNews as a fish that will bite. Punky McPunkerson 09:05, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
If he had the time I'd happily swap David for Trent as Operations Manager, quite honestly. Liveware Problem 22:40, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
I would too. Tytalk 23:03, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
I would happily swap Trent with a chicken carcass. It at least wouldn't botch projects or mess up the books. Hans Johnson as in "keep ya hans off my" (cover your eyes!) 08:44, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
Trent's never messed up the books. In my opinion, he's been in over his head and up to his shoulders in responsibilities with the Foundation that, looking through the archives of the Foundation business on RW, I think he thought he was going to simply get much needed help on if he incorporated. I can't and don't, obviously, want to speak for Trent. But he means well. I am just not certain he understood, when he incorporated RationalWiki into the RWF, that it meant he'd have to cede some his responsibilities to keep it going. Before it became a corporation, we'd donate money to Trent for him to put in his bank to keep it going. Then we incorporated, and suddenly you've got IRS rules, New Mexico rules, etc. As David Gerard even said, starting and running a small non-profit is a thankless pain-in-the-ass. Punky McPunkerson 09:11, 24 January 2013 (UTC)